[00:00:00] When Americans are asked whether they have a positive or negative view of Jesus, 7 in 10, 71% say they view him positively. And yet, all the data shows less and less people are coming to church or participating in church life. Why? Because of religious people. Positive about Jesus, but don't even know what that means in their life. How do we leverage the openness for this time of year, I think is the question.
[00:00:27] Welcome to episode 365. Christmas planning is in full effect. Today we start a two-part series about how to leverage Christmas for engagement and discipleship. We have five practical tips for helping your congregation engage with the community and bring outsiders in. That's today on The Reclaimed Leader.
[00:00:53] Welcome to The Reclaimed Leader Podcast. I'm Jason Tucker.
[00:00:57] And I'm Jesse Skiffington.
[00:00:58] We're two pastors in the trenches who are passionate about church health for greater gospel impact.
[00:01:04] We share the ups and downs of ministry, strategies that worked for us, and some that didn't.
[00:01:09] Best practices and practical tools for church leadership.
[00:01:12] The goal? To help all of our churches flourish. Let's get started.
[00:01:33] Jesse, it is Christmas time.
[00:01:36] I know, he's thinking, what? What?
[00:01:38] The weather outside is frightful, Jason.
[00:01:41] Yeah.
[00:01:41] But the fire is so delightful.
[00:01:42] So let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.
[00:01:44] Here we are.
[00:01:45] It's dark here in the Northwest, which means it is getting closer to Christmas time.
[00:01:50] We've fallen back.
[00:01:51] We're ready.
[00:01:52] And now it's time to start thinking that most wonderful time of the year.
[00:01:56] Yeah.
[00:01:57] And I just think it's wonderful.
[00:01:59] We're on the other side of the election.
[00:02:01] Theoretically, we're recording this before the election.
[00:02:03] We don't know what happened.
[00:02:05] So we don't know.
[00:02:06] I hope we are done.
[00:02:08] Yeah.
[00:02:08] But this, anything could be happening right now, Jason, in real time.
[00:02:12] This could be age, aging so badly.
[00:02:14] Yeah, that's right.
[00:02:15] Yeah.
[00:02:15] But you know, whatever.
[00:02:16] I, we got lots of other things to worry about.
[00:02:18] We won't worry about that.
[00:02:19] But anyway, welcome to the Reclaim Leader Podcast.
[00:02:22] If you're new with us, a very special welcome to you.
[00:02:24] We're talking for the next two weeks about strategic planning for Christmas and tips to maximize
[00:02:30] Christmas time because, and we do this every year.
[00:02:34] It's an annual reminder that Christmas is probably the biggest outreach any of our churches are going to have during the year.
[00:02:41] And it's because the whole culture celebrates it.
[00:02:45] You know, I know it used to be that, and maybe in some parts of the country, this is still true, but not in the Northeast or the Northwest, where Easter was also a big outreach.
[00:02:53] Yeah.
[00:02:54] It's really not like that anymore, except the exception would be any sort of kids Easter egg hunt gets well attended.
[00:03:01] Yeah.
[00:03:01] Just because it's fun, but it really, as far as coming to church, it's really not like that.
[00:03:05] The difference I've noticed with Easter and Christmas, and I don't know how we got on this topic, but here we are, but is that it tends to be a family.
[00:03:12] So people are inviting their family before Easter dinner or something.
[00:03:15] So it's kind of church people, all of them show up on the same day, plus a few of their guests.
[00:03:21] And so those are the kinds of people we're seeing on Easter.
[00:03:23] Whereas Christmas, people are coming to a candlelight service because they think it's cool and fun, or they're coming to, you know, Christmas at Tower Hill event, or they're coming to, you know, campfire and carols at Marine View because Christmas is a wonderful time of the year.
[00:03:36] And they're looking to get into the spirit of the season and have some of those experiences.
[00:03:40] So it's a unique time in the life of the church and in our year as a culture.
[00:03:45] Yeah. And you never know who's going to come walking into your church.
[00:03:49] Yeah. Again, I think about, I've got an uncle who is ethnically Jewish, but who celebrates Christmas because it has nothing to do with his faith.
[00:03:59] It's just, he loves the season, the hope, the generosity, family.
[00:04:04] He doesn't resonate at all with church the rest of the year, but he'll listen to traditional hymns and carols and Rat Packers swooning Christmas songs like that.
[00:04:13] It's part of his experience.
[00:04:15] And I think for most people, whether they're particularly religious or not, or have a faith in Jesus or not, people are really longing for some joy, some nostalgia for maybe a better time in their lives or less anxious times or connection with family every year.
[00:04:38] I mean, after all, Christmas feels less churchy to people at Christmas and even themes about a savior.
[00:04:45] But you could get away with talking about Jesus being the savior at Christmas because it's part of the holiday language.
[00:04:51] So it's a tremendous opportunity.
[00:04:54] So we want to make sure that we make the most of it.
[00:04:56] And interestingly, right?
[00:04:58] So Barna's research tells us that when Americans are asked whether they have a positive or negative view of Jesus, seven in 10, 71% say they view him positively.
[00:05:09] And yet all the data shows less and less people are coming to church or participating in church life.
[00:05:17] Why? Because of religious people.
[00:05:20] So how do we take this opportunity to leverage this moment to reach them, to reach people who are positive about Jesus, but don't even know what that means in their life?
[00:05:35] How do we leverage the openness for this time of year?
[00:05:38] I think is the question.
[00:05:39] Yeah.
[00:05:40] And to really think about it and not even, you know, I think sometimes when we think, I hear a word like leverage or, you know, take advantage of the opportunity.
[00:05:49] It is those things.
[00:05:50] I also think it's, it's stewardship.
[00:05:52] I mean, maybe that's a way that you'd like to think about it.
[00:05:55] How do I be the most faithful with this season?
[00:05:59] Uh, how do we do our very best with this for the sake of the people that are going to come?
[00:06:04] And hopefully that leads to other good things for them, for their life, their faith, their family, flourishing in our community, uh, to people coming to get to know and follow Jesus and all of those things.
[00:06:14] We want to be outcomes of a really good, thoughtful Christmas season where we did our very best and took advantage of the time when people are leaning in and paying attention.
[00:06:25] We don't get a lot of their time.
[00:06:27] So what are we going to do with the time that we do have with them?
[00:06:29] Yeah.
[00:06:30] Yeah.
[00:06:31] And, uh, as we get into these, uh, different tips for Christmas, these are things that Jesse and I, we do in our churches and I just want to share them with you.
[00:06:39] Uh, some of them, if you have listened to us for a long time, they're familiar year to year, but it's just our kind of annual reminder to ourselves.
[00:06:46] I think more than anything.
[00:06:47] Yeah, for sure.
[00:06:48] And, and all of this you can get, if you're new to the podcast, you can get, uh, we have a PDF that's all about maximizing Christmas.
[00:06:54] You just go to reclaim leader.com slash Christmas.
[00:06:57] You'll find it and you can sign up.
[00:06:59] Basically you join our, our newsletter, our weekly newsletter mailing list, and you get the PDF for free.
[00:07:05] That's the exchange.
[00:07:06] So, uh, I just, everybody knows what they're getting themselves into.
[00:07:09] That's a pretty good deal.
[00:07:10] Cause if you just hate us that after you can just hit unsubscribe.
[00:07:13] That's exactly right.
[00:07:14] Yeah.
[00:07:14] So, yeah.
[00:07:15] And we won't talk about those who do that.
[00:07:16] Um, that doesn't happen.
[00:07:19] No, no, not at all.
[00:07:21] Okay.
[00:07:22] So, um, here's some things that we do in our churches that, that work for us that we want to share with you.
[00:07:27] The first is, and this is the word to, I know we're always harping on this, but I don't think we can over say it.
[00:07:33] Think pathways, not programs.
[00:07:37] Think pathways, not programs.
[00:07:38] So I first heard this idea of pathways from the late Tony Morgan, who, uh, from unstuck, who was a guest on the reclaim leader years ago.
[00:07:49] He was on episode 65 and he talked about pathways then.
[00:07:53] And I've been, I just love that language.
[00:07:56] I thought it made so much sense.
[00:07:58] And the idea is that most churches have programming and especially Christmas programming.
[00:08:04] But honestly, a lot of our programming exists be sort of because it exists.
[00:08:09] Like it's there because it's an annual tradition or maybe at one time it had huge success and everybody loved it.
[00:08:16] And so we've done it every year forever and ever.
[00:08:18] Amen.
[00:08:19] Um, and maybe there's some things that have been limping a little bit ever since, or some are really good programs, but they're not really connected in helping people engage in the life of the church in, in a pathway.
[00:08:34] Yeah.
[00:08:34] So I really love the idea of pathways.
[00:08:37] And it really, this is just about thinking ahead.
[00:08:39] How are we thinking about the people who may come to something we're doing as a church and how do we help them take another step in that pathway of engagement?
[00:08:47] Yeah, I think it's really helpful.
[00:08:49] I love the way that you talk about that, Jason, because it helps me to think about what's the thing after the thing, you know, where's somebody going to go from here?
[00:08:58] And if we all got together and had a good experience, that's a good thing.
[00:09:01] And we should want that.
[00:09:02] And I imagine there's a ton of, of our listeners doing awesome stuff at Christmas that is meaningful and engaging and good, but what's the thing after the thing?
[00:09:11] What are we going to invite them to next?
[00:09:13] Or what's the, the, the way that they can plug in more deeply with us or connecting in with a resource or something that's going to speak to that where they are in life and faith.
[00:09:25] And so we want to think pathways and of course our programs can be touchstones on that pathway, but are they connected?
[00:09:32] And what are some of the things you guys do, Jason, to connect things?
[00:09:36] How do you go about that?
[00:09:38] Yeah. So, so let's take Christmas for example, is we're thinking about how do we between now November and the new year offer opportunities that intentionally engage people to take steps.
[00:09:54] So for example, how do we set up a, a leads to B, B leads to C, C leads to D.
[00:10:00] We're thinking about where we want them to eventually go.
[00:10:02] We're thinking about what's the right size ask for somebody.
[00:10:05] If someone's branding to the church or they're like my uncle and they're not particularly into Jesus, but they're into Christmas traditions.
[00:10:12] What am I designing that would be appealing to them?
[00:10:16] And how do I already have in mind when they show up to that thing?
[00:10:20] What's, what's a next invite for them?
[00:10:22] And so this is, for example, what we do at Tower Hill.
[00:10:25] This is what we did this year.
[00:10:27] So we have, if you want to imagine, and if you download the PDF, you'll actually get a copy of this funnel.
[00:10:33] And you also get a blank funnel for yourself to work on if, if that's a helpful tool for you.
[00:10:39] We like using the funnel as a way of just visualizing our pathway.
[00:10:44] And that is, we'll start with a, a fall event.
[00:10:49] And so in real time, we have an event coming up, a family glow night, which is just kind of fun.
[00:10:56] It's just glow in the dark.
[00:10:58] We have a bunch of glow in the dark stuff and we're inviting families to come and play a bunch of games in the dark.
[00:11:01] And it's meant to be just purely social and fun.
[00:11:06] And, but from that event, we are then inviting them to our Christmas on the Hill event, which is our big community outreach, where we have a tree lighting, a Christmas music going.
[00:11:17] It's a drop in event.
[00:11:18] We have fire pits, s'mores, hot chocolate, Christmas cookies.
[00:11:22] There's a craft for the little ones.
[00:11:24] The kids choir does a song and it's all sort of the centerpiece of it is the Christmas tree lighting.
[00:11:30] We also have pictures with Santa and we'll talk about that more in a minute.
[00:11:34] Um, then at that event, I've, in fact, I do it right before we light the tree.
[00:11:42] I'm inviting families to come to our family Christmas Eve service that features glow stick candle lighting.
[00:11:50] And, uh, because that's the demographic that's there, that's our young family pathway.
[00:11:55] We're inviting them there to the next thing.
[00:11:57] And then on Christmas Eve, we're inviting them to our January opportunity that's coming up.
[00:12:02] And I think this year we are doing a spaghetti dinner.
[00:12:05] Uh, that's going to be a mission fundraiser, but just a fun kind of thing.
[00:12:09] And eventually if they've engaged with us that long, the goal is we want to get them to sign up for a small, the next round of small groups that will launch in the beginning of February.
[00:12:18] So, um, our goal is to bring people from fall event to small group.
[00:12:25] Now they won't all come with you, but that's the trajectory that we think we want to make disciples.
[00:12:30] So how do we bring them from outside the walls of the church inside along a pathway?
[00:12:35] That's the way that we think about Christmas time.
[00:12:38] Yeah. And what I, what's nice about that is however you articulate that pathway or that, that increase sort of increasing steps of closeness into the community or connection or joining a group or attending on Sundays or whatever the thing is, that's, you're going to be your kind of ultimate landing point.
[00:12:54] You've kind of thought through this process for people.
[00:12:57] And now you can begin to think, what are the things that would get in the way of somebody coming to the next thing?
[00:13:02] What do we need to really be thinking about that would be credible for them?
[00:13:05] And, and it helps me Jason, when we're doing this to think in terms of the people who aren't here yet.
[00:13:11] Yes.
[00:13:11] And that is such a huge challenge.
[00:13:13] And, uh, so we even have a sign in our office that says, who's representing the voice of the people who aren't here yet, because it's so easy for us to plan things for ourselves.
[00:13:24] And Christmas is our time as a church too.
[00:13:26] So we're going to do these things that are really meaningful and good for the life of the church to celebrate Christ's birth.
[00:13:31] But are we thinking in terms of the people who are here yet and our hopes for them, what we hope God will do to lead them toward himself, towards Christ.
[00:13:40] And, uh, have we thought that process through?
[00:13:42] So I've always appreciated your thinking on this and how you're trying to narrow it down to something, a concrete step that someone can take to, to move along that pathway.
[00:13:52] So really good stuff.
[00:13:54] So pathways, not programs.
[00:13:55] That's the first thing.
[00:13:56] Second thing, help the congregation to reach out.
[00:13:59] And, um, next week we have a conversation, uh, Nathan from church fuel and, um, he does a great job of talking about this.
[00:14:07] We hope you'll join us for that episode.
[00:14:08] Yeah.
[00:14:08] What he said.
[00:14:10] Yeah.
[00:14:10] Right.
[00:14:11] In reverse order, but, uh,
[00:14:13] I love it.
[00:14:14] It's so good.
[00:14:14] Yeah.
[00:14:14] Helping the congregation reach out.
[00:14:16] It really, what you want to do is mobilize your people to do some inviting.
[00:14:21] I mean, it's such an opportunity.
[00:14:23] People are looking for, for candlelight services and they're looking for different opportunities.
[00:14:29] And, and so if we can get our folks to, to invite personal invitations, the number one evangelism strategy.
[00:14:35] Yes.
[00:14:36] I said the E word.
[00:14:37] If you don't like that word, say outreach, but it's the same thing.
[00:14:40] Right.
[00:14:41] Um, so personal invitation is the reigning champion of outreach strategies, but many don't know how to do it.
[00:14:48] So how do we help our congregation reach out?
[00:14:51] Um, so one thing that we do is we have a little Christmas card.
[00:14:56] Well, we have two cards.
[00:14:57] We have a postcard that has all of our Christmas stuff on it, like our events, times and dates.
[00:15:02] And we encourage people to take a postcard for themselves and put it on their fridge and then take another one to hand to somebody else.
[00:15:09] Yeah.
[00:15:09] And then we have a little card.
[00:15:11] We've talked about this before.
[00:15:12] It's a, it's kind of a blessing card.
[00:15:15] I don't know what we call it, but it's a small card.
[00:15:17] Again, you'll see it if you get the PDF.
[00:15:19] Um, and it just says this, it's you're meant to pay for somebody's order at a drive through or at a restaurant or something.
[00:15:26] And it says, Merry Christmas.
[00:15:28] We believe the greatest gift that God gave the world was Jesus.
[00:15:31] Please accept this gift as a small expression of God's love for you from your friends at Tower Hill Church.
[00:15:37] Yeah.
[00:15:37] And so we encourage people to be generous and it's a way of just sharing that.
[00:15:42] And, and it's creating a thread that if they want to follow that or it's creating a pathway opening an on-ramp, if you will.
[00:15:49] And if they choose to follow it, um, they might.
[00:15:53] So that's what we do.
[00:15:55] What do you do to help encourage?
[00:15:56] Do you help encourage your folks to invite?
[00:15:58] Yeah.
[00:15:58] We don't do anything as cool as that.
[00:16:00] We might steal that idea.
[00:16:01] You, I've heard you mentioned that a few times.
[00:16:03] So I'm like, Oh, that's an awesome one.
[00:16:04] Um, but yeah, the, the postcard thing is our main strategy.
[00:16:07] We want to get, uh, far enough out ahead in our planning to get our congregation excited about what's coming up.
[00:16:14] Not only for themselves, but as an invitation opportunity.
[00:16:17] And of course, Nathan's going to really drill down into that next time.
[00:16:20] So I won't spoil all that, but, uh, having those postcards there for not only their own calendars, but for their friends and family and neighbors and things like that, I think is really crucial.
[00:16:29] And we want to back that up with credible content that people feel good about inviting their friends or neighbors too.
[00:16:36] So we want to set them up for success and, uh, and be kind of be clear about what are, what is coming?
[00:16:43] What can you expect in those things?
[00:16:44] And what, what are the invitation points?
[00:16:46] So we just try to get out in front with our communication and over communicate all the things that are happening this time of year and reiterate and reiterate and try to generate some excitement with all the things that are coming up.
[00:16:58] Yeah.
[00:16:59] Yeah.
[00:16:59] All right.
[00:16:59] So number three, consider a giveaway at, at Christmas time.
[00:17:04] So everyone loves free stuff.
[00:17:05] And when you have guests during the holidays, it's nice to give them a gift.
[00:17:09] We've done the goofiest one we did is we did portable phone chargers and it, we said it was some totally Christian news thing that we put on it that I didn't love, but people love getting the phone chargers.
[00:17:23] They thought that, yeah.
[00:17:25] So, uh, although we, I just thought of this, we had one lady, uh, older lady in the church.
[00:17:31] Who's been with us a long time.
[00:17:32] And let's just say is no stranger to complaining.
[00:17:35] Mm hmm.
[00:17:35] She thought that if she used the charger, it would steal her data and how horrible we were for trying to steal people.
[00:17:44] Come on.
[00:17:45] Christmas is not a time for stealing people's data.
[00:17:48] That's not.
[00:17:49] You are right.
[00:17:50] Uh, no, we didn't.
[00:17:51] We're not trying to steal your data.
[00:17:52] We're just giving you a free phone char.
[00:17:54] Anyway.
[00:17:55] Um, we've given away gospel of John books, um, prodigal God, Tim Keller's prodigal God books.
[00:18:01] We've given away disc.
[00:18:02] We've given away discounts on future like youth retreats and things.
[00:18:06] And, and last year and this year, we're just giving away free advent journals.
[00:18:10] Yeah.
[00:18:11] So outreach.com has really nice resources and they have these, uh, devotional journals that you can buy.
[00:18:18] And so we make them available.
[00:18:20] We just, we order a certain amount and then when they're out, they're out, but we try to give away as many as we can just as a gift to help them connect with God during the season.
[00:18:28] So people really appreciate it.
[00:18:29] And we get guests who come up to us and like, am I allowed to take one?
[00:18:32] We're like, absolutely.
[00:18:33] You know?
[00:18:33] So it's, um, it's pretty neat.
[00:18:35] Yeah.
[00:18:36] It just creates another little sense of, uh, connection to the season and, and we're glad you're here and all that kind of thing.
[00:18:43] It's fun to have fun.
[00:18:43] So those kinds of little giveaways or little additional value ads for people that kind of set apart the season, I think are, are really good stuff.
[00:18:52] So as you're doing that, so you're, you're thinking pathways, you've created some sort of unique things that you're doing to, uh, generate invitational of invitational kind of mindset for your people.
[00:19:04] What else, what else do we need to be thinking about for Christmas time?
[00:19:08] I think it's, um, so if you have all these guests coming in to think about how are we tracking who's here?
[00:19:16] How are we actually building that relationship?
[00:19:18] And most of the way you build, it's digital digitally.
[00:19:21] And, and we don't always know how to do that.
[00:19:24] Well, I'll be honest with you.
[00:19:25] We don't do this well, just on regular Sunday morning tracking who's here.
[00:19:28] We have a lot of guests.
[00:19:29] Um, and it's great, but you know, when they, when we do a communion Sunday and people we do intention and they come forward, I'm like, I have no idea.
[00:19:38] Yeah.
[00:19:38] I have no idea who they are.
[00:19:39] And so that's sort of an ongoing issue.
[00:19:43] We're real limited in how we track them.
[00:19:45] So we use connect cards.
[00:19:46] I think everybody uses some version of a connect card.
[00:19:49] Um, so one of the biggest challenges for all this Christmas stuff where you get a bunch of guests is just simply tracking them and not to be creepy about it.
[00:19:56] I know that there's ways that you can do it.
[00:20:00] We're just not, we don't want to feel gross about it.
[00:20:04] So we'll just be upfront with the exchange.
[00:20:06] So, uh, for example, in our Christmas on the Hill event, when we do photos with Santa, we'll ask for their information and send them the photo.
[00:20:15] And, you know, we tell them, so, you know, give us your email and we're going to send you other opportunities in the church as they come up that we think you might like.
[00:20:23] Yeah. I think transparency is good.
[00:20:25] You know, we have a Christmas jazz concert.
[00:20:28] That's part of our Christmas every year.
[00:20:30] Uh, it's so much fun.
[00:20:31] And we just tell people upfront, you know, we're, if you fill out this card, we're going to use this to remind you about upcoming opportunities.
[00:20:39] We're not going to spam you with a bunch of stuff.
[00:20:41] We're not going to use it in any nefarious ways, but we want to reconnect with you and make sure you are aware of other opportunities to come and be a part of things.
[00:20:49] And I, maybe not everybody wants that.
[00:20:51] So they don't fill out the card, but some are like, you know what?
[00:20:54] Fair enough.
[00:20:54] I'd love to hear more.
[00:20:55] This is a good event.
[00:20:56] Maybe they have some other things that are coming up down the road too.
[00:20:59] Right.
[00:20:59] If they like what you're doing, they have no problem with it.
[00:21:02] But if, you know, if you're doing something, they're not into it, you know, that just kind of is what it is.
[00:21:06] And then it's an integrity issue to be responsible with that information then to make sure you're using it wisely and you're not abusing, you know, or changing the rules halfway through the game and using it for something you didn't say or kind of overdoing it.
[00:21:19] So yeah, find those natural opportunities to get contact information when you can, especially for people that are already kind of leaning in, leaning in, make it easy for them to, to do that.
[00:21:30] And I like the photo booth idea is a great, great way to do that.
[00:21:33] Um, or even if it's a simple, maybe in your church setting, it's just having a list that people can say, Hey, I'd love to hear about future events.
[00:21:40] And they write their name down or something.
[00:21:41] I don't know.
[00:21:42] There's lots of ways to do.
[00:21:43] Or, or if you're doing a certain kind of event and you can ask for a signup and in the signup process, you collect information, whatever that looks like.
[00:21:49] You got to find a way to track the guests because that's how you're going to continue to do your followup.
[00:21:53] So, um, again, connect cards are fine.
[00:21:56] Make sure you're thinking about online and physical connect cards where people can give you information.
[00:22:02] Uh, Sunday school check-ins.
[00:22:04] That's another great way to collect, um, information.
[00:22:08] So we have a security protocol like most churches do.
[00:22:11] I know your church does Jesse, where we print out name tags for the kids.
[00:22:15] All new families have to register in the system.
[00:22:17] So we want to make sure that we kind of tag them and we reach out to them appropriately about new opportunities coming up.
[00:22:23] Yeah.
[00:22:24] And then giving is another way that we track.
[00:22:26] We get information from our giving online giving platform, which is, I think 90% of our money now is digital, which is crazy.
[00:22:35] Um, we have a weekly e-newsletter, so we encourage people to sign up for that.
[00:22:40] Um, and then, you know, a PDF download.
[00:22:44] So, you know, maybe you have some content that you want to give to folks for free.
[00:22:48] You can put it on your website and it's a, it's a value exchange, just like we talked about for this episode. Right?
[00:22:55] It's like, like, we're going to give you a free PDF and you'll be on our, our newsletter list.
[00:23:00] You are the, the undisputed champion of PDF subscribe exchange transactions.
[00:23:06] I love it.
[00:23:06] Well, I want to give value other than I think it's a value to subscribe, but I also want to give, you know, I'm going to give them something.
[00:23:12] Yeah. No, it's good. It's a great, a great way to think.
[00:23:14] How can I be a benefit to someone and a value add to someone, even as I'm helping them to connect into the life of the church?
[00:23:21] It's just a good, good way to think. I like it.
[00:23:23] Like, even if your church wanted to be like top 10 things about parenting during the holidays or something, you know, something, just some sort of value exchange where you can sign people up.
[00:23:32] Yeah.
[00:23:32] And then, um, and then once you have their contact information, you can invite them to the next step of whatever pathway you want them to take.
[00:23:39] All right. And then lastly, you know, you already know what I'm going to say before I say it about preaching.
[00:23:45] Preach the mac and cheese.
[00:23:47] Preach the mac and cheese.
[00:23:48] Jason, I like jalapenos in my mac and cheese.
[00:23:50] No, not this time. Not this time.
[00:23:54] All right. Listen, I think the people that we're trying to reach at Christmas deep down, they just want to hear the story.
[00:23:59] Yeah.
[00:24:00] Even for the thousandth time.
[00:24:02] Um, and there are a lot of reasons why, but we can do our best to be creative, but whatever we do, we should just make sure that they are hearing the story.
[00:24:11] Yeah.
[00:24:12] Don't try to overthink it or get too cute.
[00:24:14] Or, you know, this year I'm going to role play.
[00:24:17] I'm going to be, um, you know, Zachariah and whatever.
[00:24:20] But like, I just think.
[00:24:23] Scrap my Christmas plans.
[00:24:24] I got to rewrite my script.
[00:24:26] I think less is more on Christmas.
[00:24:28] I really do.
[00:24:29] I especially.
[00:24:31] Yeah.
[00:24:31] Yeah.
[00:24:31] You've said this and it makes a lot of sense.
[00:24:33] Like this is, you've called it comfort food before.
[00:24:35] You know, this is the time to put one right over the plate.
[00:24:39] You know, give, give it that.
[00:24:42] Let the story speak for itself.
[00:24:43] The story of God's love in Christ.
[00:24:45] It speaks volumes.
[00:24:47] We don't need to fancy it up.
[00:24:48] We don't need to make it into something.
[00:24:49] It's not.
[00:24:50] And there is a little bit of that temptation for us.
[00:24:53] I think if we're really honest that we're doing this every year, you know, and we're,
[00:24:57] we're, we're like, what could we do to really set it apart or make it stand out or something?
[00:25:02] And you've just said, and I, I found this to be true.
[00:25:05] That's, this isn't the time for that.
[00:25:07] Um, this is the time to give the story in, in just this really a relational, compelling, engaging way, but let this, let the story be the star and not, not the way that you fancy it up.
[00:25:18] Yeah.
[00:25:19] I feel like, you know, like on Christmas Eve, for example, I feel like in our family service, I've got five good minutes.
[00:25:25] Yeah.
[00:25:26] Like, yeah, you know, kids are squirming and shrieking and playing with the glow sticks, you know?
[00:25:32] It's trying to manage the ocean.
[00:25:34] Yeah.
[00:25:34] And, and in our evening candlelight services, I shoot for 10 to 15 minutes, which is roughly half of a usual sermon because the last thing I want to do is bore people to death or cause the service to drag.
[00:25:45] I want it powerful, portable, and inspiring.
[00:25:49] Yeah.
[00:25:50] Yeah.
[00:25:50] I like it.
[00:25:51] Yeah.
[00:25:51] One of the ways that we've tackled that same challenge is we kind of do what we call the yats.
[00:25:56] I mean, essentially we, we sing a Christmas carol.
[00:25:58] We read a passage of scripture related to the Christmas story, two to three minutes, maybe on the outside would be a four minute section of just teaching with an object lesson or a good illustration.
[00:26:10] And then we go on to the next part of the story.
[00:26:12] And the, the idea, I think what you're getting at is you want to honor the people where they are.
[00:26:18] And if you're at a family service with lots of young kids around now is not the time to break out the Christology and thinking about the human, you know, divine.
[00:26:29] The hypostatic union, Jason, and all that probably save that for another time and just hit the high notes.
[00:26:36] Yeah.
[00:26:37] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:26:38] Yeah.
[00:26:39] So hopefully this helps you as you're thinking about Christmas, everyone.
[00:26:42] We got another episode next week.
[00:26:43] Again, Nathan T garden from church fuels.
[00:26:45] We'll be talking strategic Christmas planning.
[00:26:48] And he said some things that really were good reminders for me that I I'd forgotten about.
[00:26:53] So that was really good.
[00:26:54] Hope you join us for that.
[00:26:56] And in the meantime, again, that's a, if you want to get our, our PDF, it's, um, reclaim leader.com slash Christmas.
[00:27:05] And other than that, any last thoughts before we sign off here?
[00:27:07] No, Jason, I'm ready to sign up for some PDFs.
[00:27:09] Let's do it.
[00:27:10] Let's do it.
[00:27:11] I love it.
[00:27:12] It's good.
[00:27:12] We're wishing you all the very best rooting for you as you're planning your Christmas season and, and doing those are that really careful season that this are planning that this season really warrants.
[00:27:22] And so, yeah, just hoping for good things for all of you out there.
[00:27:25] And we're all in the trenches trying to make it happen.
[00:27:28] So, uh, hope to hear some, some good reports of how things went in your congregations.
[00:27:33] Because ministry is hard.
[00:27:35] It is so much better when we do it together.
[00:27:37] Take care, everyone.