[00:00:00] Hey, Reclaim Leader community.
[00:00:01] Jesse and I are excited to announce a free three day challenge,
[00:00:05] February 27th through 29th called Ministry Momentum.
[00:00:10] Get forward movement on one ministry idea.
[00:00:14] In just three days, you will identify a key ministry opportunity to tackle.
[00:00:19] Know exactly what step to take and have a clear strategic game plan to make it happen.
[00:01:27] Hey everyone, welcome to episode 327 of the Reclaim Leader. I'm Jason Tucker, back again with Jesse Skippington.
[00:01:30] As you go with Jesse.
[00:01:31] I'm doing great, Jason.
[00:01:32] Just looking for the talking shop again today.
[00:01:35] I mean, 327, we're getting close to the point.
[00:01:38] Eventually, we'll get there, where somebody could listen to one of our episodes one a day
[00:01:43] for a whole year.
[00:01:44] Yeah, that's pretty cool.
[00:01:45] Yeah, that's just kind of content to be where it is and they don't have any fight left. After three or four times you tried to change something and what did I say? I saw a meme on Facebook yesterday. It was something like, you know, the new pastor wants to change the world
[00:03:02] and they nearly get fired for changing the bulletin.
[00:03:05] That's right.
[00:03:06] That's right.
[00:03:06] So there's something.
[00:03:08] So brutal. The way we ended last week talking about how we're continually striving to be faithful to the church God has called us to be with the size and the tendencies called us to have, but we are not settled in just, well, you know, whatever. And I put it this way, we don't throw our hands up in resignation to the inevitable.
[00:04:20] We throw our hands up and surrender to what God says is possible. mainline denominational church. And I don't think it has to be this way. And pastor, I don't think you have to feel as stuck as you are. I do think there are things that you can do to help you move forward. I think it has everything to do with starting to reframe the story. That's what we're talking about today.
[00:05:41] I love to tell the story.
[00:05:43] Jason, I reach him back for the old hand.
[00:05:48] That's right.
[00:05:48] That's so good.
[00:06:45] given in to a way of thinking that just cements around a story that doesn't need to be true. Yeah. Or maybe isn't true.
[00:06:47] Yeah. Or just plain isn't true.
[00:06:49] Yeah. So when you just said that just now about living vicariously through your children,
[00:06:53] like everything, I started thinking about, I wonder if that's part of the problem of what
[00:06:59] we see in churches is older, a lot of older generations want to live vicariously through I think it's crucial and I actually thinking in terms of story can I think be really helpful for people who are stuck because we can go back and we'll get to this toward the end. But we can go back and acknowledge the good of the story that has been written and almost use it as evidence for why we can continue to write a good story going forward.
[00:08:20] So we're going to get into all of that.
[00:08:22] Yeah.
[00:08:23] So, you know, why is this so important is so important because these stories we tell ourselves might not be true. Why does it matter because belief-stride behavior?
[00:09:42] In other words, show me what you do
[00:09:44] and I'll show you at that in our own churches. Personally, in my own life, I have to think in terms of what stories am I telling myself that are true or not true about myself and all those in leadership. I think this is a really important way of thinking. Maybe there's a church out there that's telling itself, well, that church down the road, they're
[00:11:00] the church that reaches young people.
[00:11:03] We're not a church that reaches young families. What I've noticed is churches that are stuck on an inaccurate story have an incredible lack of imagination that anything could be any different than what they currently know. So psychology today, there's an article by Pamela Rutledge, the psychological power of storytelling. And she says, stories are the pathway to engaging our right brain and triggering our
[00:12:23] imagination. Wow, I had no idea. And they sing hymns, you know? Like they couldn't imagine anything else. And then when they started to see it, they were able to start restructuring the story. Yeah, yeah. And I think part of that too, is people get really boxed in around their own particular, unique experience of church. And they've never been to another church very rarely.
[00:13:42] And so they just, yeah,
[00:13:43] that collective imagination dries up.
[00:13:45] And then someone like you or with if you have a staff, I'm going to get to give a staff, or friends, or start a small group, or just a couple of people that you trust. And you just want to start asking some questions. Honestly, the quality of the questions we ask determines a whole lot about the stories that we tell. It's questions make all the difference, man. Yeah, for sure. They really do. So I think a place to start, and you know this,
[00:15:00] if you've been listening to the podcast for all,
[00:15:01] you know that we love starting here, generally.
[00:15:05] And that is just a lot of churches, even in the hiring process, when they go to bring on a staff member say, hey, we need to find a new music director or something like that. The committee that interviews is often interviewing as if they're the church 25 years ago. Yeah. And about all the ideals and programs and things they do when we haven't been that for a long time. But that's in their minds.
[00:17:41] That's who we are. So you got to ask, well, who are we now? Yeah. insurance. But I love that commitment to our young people. I wonder what that would look like today. Like what's our version of the bus right now? So I think you can take parts of your legacy and use it as a framework for how you could redevelop something of that same mindset now that was there at present and that past idea. So that was part of our story.
[00:17:42] I love getting to know that part of our story.
[00:17:44] It gave me a better appreciation for the church
[00:17:47] because I gotta be honest, sometimes as a leader, not everybody is stuck somewhere. Yeah. And to just ask the question, why are you stuck there? Why is your church stuck? What is the BS you tell yourselves about the future? Now, hang on, before you shut me off. Easy, Jason, easy. BS stands for belief system. Oh, cool. Yeah. OK, I thought we were going to have to part ways here for him.
[00:19:00] And I was really worried.
[00:19:01] Yeah.
[00:19:04] Yeah, I mean, listen, what are you telling yourselves
[00:19:06] about the future that just isn't true?
[00:19:08] Yeah. That's a framework that's holding them back. Are they old? Yes. Are they older than they wanna be? Yes. But you're telling me that there is no way to infuse some youth or some younger life or some, there is no way, there is no way to get traction
[00:20:21] on reaching even other older people?
[00:20:25] Come on, that's just what they see in front of them. So their story is the opposite of what's happening. And I think that's just an important lesson. The reason everybody has their story is because of what they're seeing with their eyes, usually. And their eyes do deceive them from time to time.
[00:21:41] Yeah.
[00:21:42] So what do you do, Jesse, when you get someone who's just like, we just don't have the energy. I do think it's helpful to start to think in terms of how do we make sure that this great story that we do have? That's part of our legacy. Is there a way to write a new story built on that going forward? I think that's a viable question. Is a new story possible? Do you believe that? Yeah. What would you want that story to be? What would it be like?
[00:23:03] What would your dream be? And just try to, again, coming back to your questions,
[00:24:04] things. But one thing I jotted down as we were getting ready was to connect your vision to your legacy. Like they need to be part of a continuity of story that can acknowledge that we've been
[00:24:10] through something hard and it hasn't been what we wanted. But the forward-facing part should be
[00:24:15] connected to the story of where you've been, especially if you have a church with a lot of
[00:24:20] great history. Why not leverage those things in a positive way for the future ministry
[00:25:25] One of their peers can be willing to infuse some imagination.
[00:25:27] You start to change the dynamic. The other thing is invite different people to the table.
[00:25:31] So one of the things when you're changing group,
[00:25:33] your group dynamic, whether it's an elder board
[00:25:37] or a small group or something,
[00:25:39] you just have to bring one new person on
[00:25:42] and give them permission to speak their mind.
[00:25:44] And you start to change the group dynamic.
[00:25:46] That's how you break up, but that's actually a healthy sign, I think. It means the ground's being tilled. But just be ready for that. It might not always go down smoothly. Yeah. It's worth it. Yeah. Okay, so you could change the dynamic.
[00:27:00] Second thing is, do something as a church
[00:27:03] you wouldn't ordinarily do.
[00:27:05] Yeah.
[00:27:06] That's not rocket science, I know.
[00:27:07] No, it's good though.
[00:27:08] Yeah. You know, and the legend of when they came back from a swimming thing, and everybody's hair froze because the heater on the bus wasn't working and it was 30 degrees
[00:28:21] outside. I'm like, that was crazy. I want a crazy story, right? So I think that goes so far.
[00:29:22] full versions of a congregation that we can be.
[00:29:26] We don't have to compare, but we can do more.
[00:29:28] We don't have to compare. Don't do the comparison thing.
[00:29:29] You can't compare yourself to like the warehouse church
[00:29:31] of 2000, which is often what happens.
[00:29:35] And it's not healthy.
[00:29:37] And there are things about the warehouse church of 2000
[00:29:39] that isn't great.
[00:29:40] There's some good things and there's about
[00:29:42] just like every single church.
[00:29:43] So you can't compare that.
[00:29:46] Just what's your best version of you? that story that isn't true. So again, sort of looping back around to what you said, what if we could, what if we could, what if, what if, and if we can get our congregations thinking that way, I think we got a greater shot at faithfulness. Yeah, and I think you said, introduce one new thing, or do something you've never done before.
[00:31:03] And I would say I would recommend having that be
[00:31:05] an outward facing thing, like something for in the community I just, I really appreciate the conversation, Jason. I think it's spot on whether your church seems to be moving forward. I promise you there are parts of the story that are wrong that you need to look at, or if you're really stuck and you have this bigger story that says we will never flourish again because that's just not true. You can do it. Something good can happen.
[00:32:20] Yeah.
[00:32:21] All right.
[00:32:22] Well, hey, everyone.
[00:32:23] Thanks so much for listening.
[00:32:24] We love doing this every week and hope you do too.
[00:32:27] I want to encourage you.
[00:32:28] Leave us a review.