[00:00:00] Banding their clothes for having somebody so that if there's an actual new person who might need to know where do I take my eighth grader or how do I even find the right place to sit in the sanctuary, there's somebody to be with them.
[00:00:16] Welcome to episode 329. Have you ever been in conversation with a pastor looking past you to someone else? Or did you show up to church only to be ignored while people caught up with their friends?
[00:00:28] Today we welcome Stan Ott and Leigh Zimmer as we talk about moving from breeding to engaging.
[00:00:33] That's today on The Reclaimed Leader.
[00:00:41] Hey everyone, welcome to episode 329 of The Reclaimed Leader. I'm Jason Tucker, back again with Jesse Skiffington. How's it going, Jesse?
[00:00:49] Here, Jason. I had a good day so far and had a chance to speak at a chapel service for my daughter's school and I think I managed to not to embarrass her together.
[00:00:58] Look at that. Yeah, that's pretty good. I'm having a pretty good day. And we're also talking shop, talking leadership and thinking about how we can help churches to flourish and thrive and do all the things that we want to do for the sake of what God is doing in our communities.
[00:01:14] And so, yeah, just glad to get to be talking with you again and to get to be talking to some really awesome guests and we're going to be jumping in and I'll let you introduce them.
[00:01:24] Yeah, so we're excited to welcome back to the podcast, Stan Ott, who is very well known, at least in Presbyterian circles, from his Vital Churches Initiative, and, you know, he's a speaker, a writer, he has done a lot of working with churches all over the country.
[00:01:40] And we just love having him on the podcast. He's just a fount of wisdom. And he has a podcast called "Building One Another" that he does with his co-host, Lee Zimmer, excuse me.
[00:01:52] And, you know, another guy, tons of church experience. So we get to talk to them about making sure that we are not just greeting our guests, but how do we engage them as they're coming into our doors in the Sunday morning?
[00:02:07] And I thought that was a perfect topic for upcoming, if you're listening in real time, Easter is just a few weeks away.
[00:02:13] Yeah, I think it is really timely. And the thing is, we always have to come back to these best practices around what seem like kind of simple things.
[00:02:22] And it's important to keep bringing it to front of mind. How are we greeting? How are we welcoming? How are we integrating people into the life of the church? And so, as we're talking today, it's so much fun to get just hear some wisdom, some practical ideas that are going to come out of this conversation today.
[00:02:36] Yeah, and again, I felt like this episode was full of great reminders that we just want to keep front of the brain as we're getting ready to welcome people in the Easter season.
[00:02:48] So many people who might be looking for a church are doing it now, as we're getting close to Easter, then of course you have your typical Easter crowd that may be guests from out of town or just friends of people who go to your church or family who are visiting.
[00:03:04] I mean, there's so many opportunities to do that well. And even if you feel like you have your guest services dialed in, there's always room for improvement.
[00:03:15] I was thinking of that as we have a great guest services team. But every once in a while, there'll be some behavior that we just got like, hey, maybe that's not the most engaging thing.
[00:03:27] We got somebody on that team that is a rock star, absolute rock star, but for whatever reason was, was sort of hell bent on giving out this umbrella cover. So we have these little plastic bags if somebody's umbrella is wet, we offer them when they come in and they can stick it in this plastic bag.
[00:03:46] And it's made for this it and you know something we have at the front door as just a sign of, you know, welcome, we're taking care of your needs that sort of thing.
[00:03:56] I don't know this guy felt like he had to, he was sort of chasing people down to give them the bag. And, and you know, and so we had somebody and again, he's great he's one of our best.
[00:04:09] You know, our director of guest services had to go and be like, Hey, it's not about the bag. It's about making sure that they feel cared for.
[00:04:18] And, and it was, and he made the readjustment but stuff like that happens all the time so staying on top of it, I think is really important.
[00:04:26] Yeah, I love it. I think those are, yeah, those good reminders of what is the goal, what is the purpose of what we're doing and then let that filter through into the things that we do in the actions and how do we train our people and I love that they get into that a little bit too.
[00:04:38] Just how do you create that culture as the ways that you talk about it so, yeah, looking forward to diving into this one and yeah so yeah let's do it. So without any further ado here is our conversation with Stan and Lee.
[00:04:52] Well, we are so thrilled to have Stan Ott and Lee Zemer on the podcast Stan a friend of the podcast for a long time. Glad to welcome him back and Lee a new friend of the podcast.
[00:05:04] And for those who don't know Lee and Stan, they have a podcast called building one another will talk a little bit about that Stan is a pastor who has served three vibrant congregations and is president of leading moments.
[00:05:19] And founder of the vital churches Institute, which many of you know, because we've talked about it. His passion is the transformation of the local church and the encouragement of those who follow Jesus.
[00:05:30] Lee is he was a pastor, gosh and ministry and a Presbyterian church for decades and now is brand new hot off the press at first press rock Hill.
[00:05:43] He has been active in the transformation of the local church served as a moderator of church growth and transformation committee of his denominational region for over a decade.
[00:05:53] All this experience on one podcast, man. I'm so excited. I tell you man we're in over our heads. We really are on every part of our skis a little bit but welcome to the podcast, Stan and Lee.
[00:06:04] Hey, welcome. Thanks. Thank you. That's a great to be with you.
[00:06:07] So glad to have you in this episode. I think is a critical topic as we're looking toward Easter. A lot of people are like, Hey, you know, Easter, it's like we get this flood of people and I don't know what to do about it.
[00:06:22] I don't know what it is I'm supposed to be doing and how to help them take a next step. Oftentimes your congregations will be mown the CNE Christians. I happen to love them.
[00:06:33] I think I think it's a blast when they show up. But I think it's a nice thing to think about. Okay.
[00:06:40] Is this just a family reunion, or are we doing something intentional about the way that we're greeting people as we're ramping up toward Easter now we're going to get to that in the topic but first what I'd love to do is for you to share.
[00:06:55] Tell us about building one another. How did that come to pass and tell us about how it's going.
[00:07:02] Well, for quite some time. I did workshops and training and congregational vitality all over the place.
[00:07:11] Did quite a bit of that in North Carolina here and Lee began to be a part of it and then Lee and I became friends through that.
[00:07:19] And Lee began to bug me stand we need to do a podcast on encouraging one another you know what what are the concepts the principles that enable people to truly encourage each other and not just talk the top but really walk it.
[00:07:34] And I'm like no, no, no, I just I just felt he had so much to share and and we I thought he deserved a wider audience.
[00:07:45] And so I've I've bugged him about it for at least four years.
[00:07:50] So Lee I was in Dallas last week and somebody said well they listened to the podcast they liked me but they really liked you.
[00:07:58] No, they really did nice that well it's been nice talking to you.
[00:08:05] And you've been doing it now for what do you say five years. I think it's about five years we're like at a episode 100 and the 57 or eight or something like that we started.
[00:08:15] We had grand schemes to do weekly and then and then we ended up going every other week and now it works out to be about once every three weeks.
[00:08:25] But we did not pod fade where we're continuing on. Nice. Yeah, we totally get that the rhythm of a weekly.
[00:08:34] That's a lot. Jason leads the charge for us and I'm along for the ride. I think where we at Jason 330.
[00:08:40] This will be three 28.
[00:08:42] That's a lot of words.
[00:08:44] Yeah. So they may we got 115 something podcasts between the two of us here so you could fill many many books with all the words.
[00:08:54] That's right.
[00:08:55] I don't know if that's good or bad but we'll let the listeners judge so.
[00:08:59] That's right.
[00:09:00] The process of having that I mean I'm sure you guys have found this the process of being able to talk ministry and talk shop with one another on a regular basis does something to sharpen you.
[00:09:10] And it keeps things front of mind that may slide to the back and and this is one of those topics I think for a lot of us because with all the pressures of of Lent and Easter for the rhythm of the church life and trying to figure out even just what's next beyond Easter.
[00:09:30] I mean most pastors are thinking like I just got to just got to get to Easter and I'm just going to collapse and the youth pastor is going to preach the next Sunday or you know or whatever you know whatever the usual rhythm is.
[00:09:42] But let's get into it. What what kind of spawned this idea for you on that episode of your podcast to start talking about greeting versus engaging what's the problem that you see.
[00:09:57] Both Leonite of run parallel tracks on this, not just through the equipping ministry we've been involved in in pastoral situations where I can remember very clearly being in worship some Sunday morning.
[00:10:14] I see a couple of people in the middle of the sanctuary who are guests first time.
[00:10:19] And the second worship is over somebody runs up in the church with some issue and I'm neutralized.
[00:10:27] It's it's like a pick and basketball or cross body block.
[00:10:31] And there's no greeter at that point.
[00:10:34] The only way that person will be welcome is if the people who are there just have the lifestyle of pulling people in of engaging people.
[00:10:45] And if it's just like, well, you don't know who you are and they all leave boom.
[00:10:51] You know, that's kind of what got this going at least in my mind Lee, you may have another.
[00:10:57] Yeah, I think what we've talked about is the importance of training our people to be aware of folks who are not within our circle of influence, so to speak.
[00:11:11] It's so easy for us to stick with the circle of friends that we have, you know, and just overlook the folks who just walk in the door.
[00:11:22] And so for me, the concept that has been very helpful that Stan taught me was this idea of ministry and public friendship and private.
[00:11:35] We train our people to say, Hey, it's great you have friends. And we're so glad that that's one of the things that bring you to, bring you to church. But when you're in public in the church, you need to put that down on the priority list and develop this ministry outreach mentality to say, you know, I'll see my friend at the Super Bowl party I'm hosting, but I really want to reach out to this new person. I don't know. Yeah.
[00:12:03] To give you a quick, quick illustrations, I was a guest. I like the word guest instead of visitor because visitor kind of is, yeah, whatever. But the guest is, you know, let this person. So I'm a guest in a congregation. Never been. I go down to Fellowship Hall after worship. I get a cup of coffee. And I stood in three different places and tried to look as hopeless and approach him.
[00:12:30] You know, and it was like, okay, I had some kind of anti something flow, not a single person even made eye contact. But then on the different congregation, the second worship was over, the lady in the pew behind us said, Are you new?
[00:12:50] And she talked to us for 15 minutes about the light, you know, and it was so pull any so felt goody as opposed to like, who are you?
[00:13:03] And she wasn't doing it because she was a greeter. She was just simply in spirit, a pull in.
[00:13:12] That is so important because I'll kind of get to my point here. But when we had Bob Whitehall, who I think you know, Stan, you know, Dr. Whitehall, he came to our church and he was going to do sort of like a Sunday audit for us is when I first came here about 11 years ago.
[00:13:33] And every church says, you know, they think they're a friendly church, right? We're such a friendly church. That's our thing. We're the people, we're seeing the friendliest people.
[00:13:43] And he came and reported back to us and not a single person greeted him while he stood in the North X, not only before and after, but during, I mean, nobody talked to him and I was so embarrassed.
[00:13:57] We went, we talked about, we developed a plan and how we're going to do better at that. And he came back again about four or five months later.
[00:14:06] And the same thing happened. And I couldn't believe it.
[00:14:10] We ended up developing a guest services team. And I feel like what we do now is really wonderful. However, even if you have a team, it helps increase your, your proximity or your, the area that you can cover.
[00:14:26] But you still need to train your people to just have a habit of greeting because those guest services people, they also get tied up in conversations. And it's just, it's got to be everybody.
[00:14:40] I was in this congregate, wonderful congregation at Pittsburgh. And one year, I had them all stand up in the middle of the sermon, which is great fun because everybody's like, what, we don't do that.
[00:14:54] And I said, I want you to turn and just say to your neighbor, welcome. I'm glad you're here.
[00:15:00] And so they all did that. And then I said, now, I would like to invite you to say that to every human you bump into on this property, even if you've known them 30 years.
[00:15:12] So this goes on for a year, and then I have them do it again. And I said, I'd like you now to say to each other. Welcome. I'm glad you're here. I hope you feel welcome. And just add the, I hope you feel welcome.
[00:15:24] So they all do that. Say it to every human you bump into whether you've known them 30 years or not. And we.
[00:15:31] So, one of the people in the church had a social party few months later. And 20 people half were from the church, 10 people half from the neighborhood.
[00:15:43] And without even thinking, she said to her gathered guests, welcome. I'm glad you're here. And half of them replied, and we hope you feel welcome.
[00:15:54] The other half were like, what? That's right. But I was thrilled because what it meant was, they got it. They understood that their job was to pull people in, and not just have best buddy eyes, where you only talk to your buddy and don't even see the other.
[00:16:18] We had we read a church this last Sunday, we were away visiting my daughter at college, and we went to Presbyterian church in Harrisonburg, Virginia shout out to first press, because they greeted us beautifully.
[00:16:33] And, in fact, my wife had that. So the pastor's wife, at least mine. She, she's really good at helping people just not feel like they're wasting time on us, because we're visiting pastors. So the, the woman, the P behind us, she struck up conversation she wants to know all about us, but it was in a really great way.
[00:16:55] And that church was just trained. You talk to your guests and my wife was just like, you know, kind of like, it's great to see it before you start. We're visiting pastors, as if to say, don't, we're like, we're not coming back next week.
[00:17:09] But that's not why you're, but, but they did a phenomenal job and it makes all the difference too when you have a congregation that's just trained to do that. And I think what you're getting at Stan.
[00:17:21] Literally training them to do that may be the first step, even just a hand holding in the sense that you did.
[00:17:29] Well, all of us find it very easy to talk with somebody we know it's just how it is. And we're a little anxious.
[00:17:38] So if I have some phrase, there's nothing genius about what the one I'm glad you're here every advertising spot on the planet uses that, but it works.
[00:17:50] Yeah.
[00:17:51] I remember a long time ago and I have no idea where this came from, but somebody said that people decide whether to come back a second time, before they have figured out who the pastor is.
[00:18:06] Yeah, why is that because there's this spirit in the body of pulling up beat of rather as opposed to, oh my goodness.
[00:18:18] Although I've always thought that step couldn't possibly be true because once they see the wonderfulness of it.
[00:18:26] But that used to be the thing that you know, 25 years ago they'd say, oh, just wait till you hear the pastor and all that but the truth is most people have already decided if they're coming back before they come back.
[00:18:35] If they're coming back before the pastor, you know, even says anything.
[00:18:39] Yeah, I think there's something winsome about happening the congregation being the primary welcome or student in a certain sense.
[00:18:45] Like Lee, you and I were paid to be the like, to be nice to people.
[00:18:49] Of course, the pastor is going to do that, right?
[00:18:51] Exactly.
[00:18:52] Even the readers or the guest services team or whatever.
[00:18:55] But if the congregation itself is warm and welcoming in a winsome, not sell.
[00:19:00] I mean, that's like people they want to belong.
[00:19:04] They want to feel that.
[00:19:05] So that's I think getting that culture kind of down into the into the roots of the congregation can make you pay huge dividends.
[00:19:12] Yeah, we began to work with the readers because in a sense, readers have program eyes.
[00:19:20] My job I'm hired for free to to smile at people and say hi, which is fine.
[00:19:30] But the second they stop greeting, they run over and sit with their best buddy, which is what any normal person would do.
[00:19:38] That's how we get that.
[00:19:40] But how about instead of program eyes, you have the people eyes of Jesus.
[00:19:46] And so there's somebody comes and you realize they're new.
[00:19:52] And your post is to stand by the door and greet.
[00:19:56] But actually your real post are those new people.
[00:20:00] And so you abandoned the door post and escort them.
[00:20:06] Where do you need to be?
[00:20:07] If they're going to children's, they don't know where the kids walk with them.
[00:20:12] Or walk them into the sanctuary and sit and you're not at the door anymore.
[00:20:18] But honestly, who cares?
[00:20:20] Because now there's a ball.
[00:20:24] And what you're really talking about and I think this is important is, you know, I hear a lot of churches talking about assimilation.
[00:20:30] I've never much liked that word in church life.
[00:20:35] I think what you're really talking about is relational evangelism.
[00:20:39] And it begins with a hello welcome.
[00:20:42] I'm glad you're here.
[00:20:43] But it continues with following them to where they need to go.
[00:20:47] Because what you're really doing is just trying to build a relationship in a non creepy way.
[00:20:52] Right?
[00:20:53] So that's the one thing I want to talk about is there's a line between engaging and overgreeting.
[00:20:59] And I know there's some nuances of that line.
[00:21:04] But what are some of your thoughts, Lee, or Stan on how do you help your people understand that difference?
[00:21:14] I had to think about that.
[00:21:19] Well, you know, and I'm not even sure myself, although, you know, relationally, if somebody gets too close to you physically, you feel a little weird.
[00:21:32] And if somebody is to the law me awning weirdo, that's kind of odd.
[00:21:39] No.
[00:21:40] But if someone's genuinely pleasant and gives you a little social space and kind of gently walks with you, and discerns, you know, just let them be.
[00:21:53] It's a little bit of a judgment call.
[00:21:56] Yeah.
[00:21:57] There was a wonderful book series that's been out for a bit.
[00:22:01] I think it was so good.
[00:22:03] It's the Mark Waltz series called First Impressions.
[00:22:08] And he talks about creating the wow experience for the guest.
[00:22:14] Person drives on your property.
[00:22:16] He says you have about eight minutes to communicate a warmth, a welcome, a sense of future, a sense of energy.
[00:22:25] And these people are trying to figure out where to park.
[00:22:28] What door to even go through, which is often obvious, what to do with a kid.
[00:22:34] I mean, it's the opposite of what.
[00:22:38] And so it's without even reading the book, it makes you think, hmm.
[00:22:45] How do we help the people, all the people, as well as the door people create that.
[00:22:54] Yeah.
[00:22:55] Yes.
[00:22:56] Stan, that reminds me of the book, The Power of Moments.
[00:22:59] Yes.
[00:23:00] That was a book that you had recommended to me.
[00:23:03] By the Heath Brothers.
[00:23:04] And we'll link to these in the show notes as well.
[00:23:07] That's a really, watch it.
[00:23:10] That's a powerful book. It's by Dan and Chip Hee. Well, the upshot of the book is that we need to be striving to create a moment that is memorable and welcoming. And it's that wild factor that goes along with that initial moment that will draw people in. And the book is not particularly church related. It's just talking about.
[00:23:39] Anytime that we're engaging people that we want to be on board with what we're doing is to be thinking about how can we create that wow moment during their first engagement.
[00:23:52] And they give very clear guidelines for doing that. And the wild doesn't have to be like Fourth of July, Crazy Wonderful. Just when we moved to Charlotte a few years ago, it was the first time in my life. I was a church shopper.
[00:24:13] And that's a very different, you know, and I would go with Emory and we'd sit there. And in some places, think, well, that was as magnetic as as mud.
[00:24:25] The people were nice, but they just didn't give any care, whatever about our reality. In other places, it was like, Hmm, we could be.
[00:24:39] We could be apart and be okay. So really, there's no way getting around the fact that, you know, let's say churches, just having somebody at the door greeting does not equal the solution to doing this well. It certainly, it's about giftedness as well as it's about training and intentionality.
[00:25:01] It seems to me like if you if you had a congregation, you got some people who are close talkers or uncomfortable, don't put them at the door. Like that may not be their gift.
[00:25:12] Because I do think some churches are like, we just need warm bodies. You know, can you hand out the bulletin or can you do like it takes intentionality and gifting.
[00:25:20] I remember Ben Johnson once would talk to me about these issues and he said, Stan, what is the average age of your greeters.
[00:25:30] Well, they were all great grandparent age people who were willing and had time. He said, that's fine. They're gracious and wonderful, but the image you're creating for the visiting 40 year old is maybe not the image you really want to create with
[00:25:49] complete honor and respect for those who are a little more mature.
[00:25:53] Yeah, I think there's something of an organic aspect to the community, the culture of warmth and welcome.
[00:26:00] And then the strategic side that you're kind of pointing to their standards like have the right people there that are going to represent your congregation well and that are trained to do this well and to hand off.
[00:26:10] So I think it's like this combination of warmth plus careful thinking and sound training that kind of leads to some good results. And that's something we strive for and we know when it goes right and when it goes wrong.
[00:26:24] And I hate it when I hear back from somebody that was like, I didn't know where to go or what to do. And unfortunately, we found our way or it's just not clear or something that just like hurts our hearts a little bit.
[00:26:37] But we sort of make up for that with the relational warmth that exists in our congregation. And I think that's like, if we can get that into the DNA of our people go so far.
[00:26:48] And one guy that always comes to mind his name is Eugene, and Eugene is he cooks for our men's breakfast every once a month, every Saturday.
[00:26:56] And if you're a guest, he will invite you to come and cook with them for the men's breakfast next month. And we're like, Eugene, that seems way overreaching.
[00:27:07] But it comes from this really genuine, thoughtful, kind of almost jokey way that just really winsome.
[00:27:13] And I think train, how do you get that into the DNA of a congregation? I think it takes things like what you're doing, Stan, or just talking over and over again about this is who we are this is who we want to be as a church.
[00:27:25] And so there's the culture aspect and then the strategy aspect and somehow they're going together, I think.
[00:27:30] One of the great directors of Christian Ed was the last century was famous. If you walked in the door, you'd be set in chairs up immediately.
[00:27:41] Her view was those who serve become apart.
[00:27:45] Yeah, you belong, you're invited, it was a heavy just, hey, would you help set these chairs up? You know, okay. All of a sudden you move from guests to alongside and you're not just a passive participant, you're actively engaged.
[00:27:58] So, obviously you have to do that within reason. And sometimes I'm like, Eugene, maybe pump the brakes on the men's breakfast cooking invitation, but you know, everybody's got their way.
[00:28:08] Well, who was it sociologist, Christian Smith, who said, be long incomes before believing? And I think that's true, that rings true to me still.
[00:28:19] And Marie and I visited a congregation on Cape Cod, we were just up there for a few days happened to be on Sunday.
[00:28:27] So we attend worship in the pastor goes up and says, with the visitors raised their hands.
[00:28:36] Well, there was no way to hide because it was maybe 150 people.
[00:28:41] So, okay, then the pastor starts going to each of the three visiting folks with a bag of 50 treats to interview them.
[00:28:51] Well, Anne Marie, it's just crawling and pew. And you know, so where are you from? What do you do?
[00:28:58] So, okay, so when worship is over, guess how many people said hi.
[00:29:05] None. I mean, we could not possibly have been more exposed.
[00:29:10] And then I go to the back and shake the hands of the pastor, and that pastor's eyes are looking past me.
[00:29:18] The second we touch hands, which told me, this is not actually a place that would welcome us.
[00:29:27] Yeah, it's in helping our people develop the lifestyle of what, what you said, like friendship and private.
[00:29:36] I know I'm going to see Bill and Mary tonight. So here, I'm just going to say hi, Bill.
[00:29:41] Hi, Mary. And focus on somebody else. And if it makes me nervous to talk to somebody else, I would say to Bill and Mary, my buds, let's go talk to that person.
[00:29:54] We call that the Emmaus principal, just two of us.
[00:29:58] We're relaxed. I'm not uptight because I'm with my bud.
[00:30:03] I love that. That was actually my next question about the Emmaus principal.
[00:30:07] The idea that, that, hey, you know, having a conversation with them. Hey, let's go welcome them.
[00:30:12] And I love that because it invites them to participate in the mission.
[00:30:18] Absolutely.
[00:30:20] And the truth is now the person knows two people by face, not one.
[00:30:26] And a lot of us by personality or whatever, don't find it comfortable to just talk to somebody that we're not familiar with, which is okay.
[00:30:40] But just grab a buddy and the two of you. It's totally different feel.
[00:30:46] And it's so much easier for two people, three people to talk than two people because somebody's always got the ball.
[00:30:55] Yeah.
[00:30:56] So you can, you know, where would you start? So let's say, okay.
[00:31:00] I'm a pastor in a local congregation. I realized that our, our greeting and the way that we develop those guest relationships is maybe a little broken.
[00:31:12] I can't spend a ton of money to do XYZ.
[00:31:17] What do we do? We can't do an elaborate gift giveaway for all the guests.
[00:31:21] What do I start? What are a couple of things I can do that could have an immediate impact?
[00:31:29] Well, you want to say?
[00:31:31] Well, I mean, I liked what you said, Stan.
[00:31:34] You know, getting everybody to kind of force them to say welcome. I'm glad you're here.
[00:31:39] And then, and then continuing to remind people that that's going to be our culture.
[00:31:46] And actually have them practice it, practice it. Yeah.
[00:31:50] Which is a very fun moment because everybody's laughing a little bit and it's fun and make fun of yourself as you're doing it.
[00:31:57] Exactly.
[00:31:59] And I say, you know, even if you've known people 30 years, say it.
[00:32:04] Yeah.
[00:32:05] As a sidebar, I discovered there were people in the congregation who had been there 30 years.
[00:32:11] Who did not know each other's names, but it was now completely embarrassing.
[00:32:16] So they would say, Oh, yeah, you know, what's up? Did you see the Super Bowl?
[00:32:21] But this way, the ground is level.
[00:32:26] Yeah.
[00:32:27] Well, I'm glad you're here. We all say that.
[00:32:30] Yeah.
[00:32:31] And then, you know, maybe sort of based on what you said about the pastor greeting you, Stan.
[00:32:36] Maybe if, if we start with us, how can I make sure that I'm present to people not just looking past them to who's next?
[00:32:47] A huge.
[00:32:49] And if you need to keep talking to people and there's a guest, could you introduce them to somebody near you?
[00:32:58] I've known pastors who had somebody stand with them so they could gently pass the guest over.
[00:33:05] Something else I might suggest has to do with what's called the passing of the peace.
[00:33:12] Or the sometimes in the salvage, very common.
[00:33:17] They stand up to pass the peace and they say the peace of Christ be with you to each other, which is super easy if you grew up with that.
[00:33:27] But if you're a guest, you actually don't know what you're supposed to say.
[00:33:30] Yeah.
[00:33:31] And I discovered visiting that this lippies like the first time this woman took my hand.
[00:33:39] And as she is saying the peace of Christ be with you, her eyes are looking for the next person to shake the hand up, which left me feeling weird.
[00:33:51] So it's like, why don't you just simply greet people.
[00:33:57] Say the peace of Christ if you want and say my name is Stan.
[00:34:02] I don't.
[00:34:03] So I, and if I only talk to two people instead of all six.
[00:34:09] So that there's an actual pulling in moment rather glancing below moment.
[00:34:17] Yeah.
[00:34:18] And then, yeah, and then I would say, and then maybe one other thing for that pastor is, you know, how am I just making sure that the language of what we do isn't getting in the way of what we're trying to accomplish.
[00:34:34] And this is usually where traditions can be a little bit of a hurdle.
[00:34:39] And it's funny you mentioned passing of the piece, we had a similar thing, our contemporary service.
[00:34:45] has virtually no traditional elements that you would recognize.
[00:34:50] However, there was one holdover.
[00:34:52] We would tell people to pass the peace
[00:34:55] right after the announcements
[00:34:56] and the kids are dismissed to go to Sunday school.
[00:34:59] And we've had a lot of new and unchurched people
[00:35:04] continuing to come.
[00:35:06] And what we realized, I realized this one Sunday,
[00:35:10] is our communications were, she said,
[00:35:13] okay, and then on a piece of Christ, we with you.
[00:35:16] And everybody just sat in their seats.
[00:35:19] There was no engagement and it dawned on me.
[00:35:22] They don't know what we're talking about.
[00:35:24] - Exactly.
[00:35:25] - So we started saying kids,
[00:35:28] you're invited to Sunday school and everyone else,
[00:35:31] get up and say hi to one another.
[00:35:32] And then the whole room erupts.
[00:35:35] It was amazing.
[00:35:36] They had no idea what we were talking about.
[00:35:39] - If you have to call it something, call it the greeting.
[00:35:43] - Yeah, absolutely.
[00:35:45] You have to share the peace of Christ.
[00:35:47] Well, you're welcome to my friend, if that's right.
[00:35:50] But you're right.
[00:35:51] I was in a contemporary service a little while ago
[00:35:57] and in that particular, no, it wasn't, it was traditional.
[00:36:02] People took out hymnals and the person had never seen a hymn
[00:36:09] because they had been in an environment that is very different.
[00:36:13] Well, how are you to drop screens, of course?
[00:36:15] Well, in many places.
[00:36:18] Looking for ways for people to be personal
[00:36:26] as opposed to just, I'm a human here
[00:36:29] and the real point of the passing of the pieces.
[00:36:31] So I stand up and sit down and work out a little bit
[00:36:35] before this sermon.
[00:36:37] (laughing)
[00:36:39] Which is sort of the feeling you get, but no.
[00:36:43] The congregation we're attending right now
[00:36:48] has what they call name tag Sunday.
[00:36:51] And once a month that you put on a sticky tag
[00:36:56] as you walk into the room, it's not everybody, wait.
[00:36:59] That's really been helpful though.
[00:37:01] Because then when there's the greeting moment,
[00:37:05] I can say, well, that's Kathy.
[00:37:07] I've sat near Kathy for six times, no idea what that is.
[00:37:12] And because they don't invite us to share names,
[00:37:17] it's the only way to know.
[00:37:19] - Yeah, I'll tell you that I was able to use my newness
[00:37:24] to get people to start wearing name tags.
[00:37:28] Look, I've got 300 plus people to learn.
[00:37:30] You only had to learn one.
[00:37:31] Let's all wear name tags.
[00:37:32] And there's a little bit of grumbling and stuff,
[00:37:35] but I had any number of newer people in the church say,
[00:37:39] I'm just so glad we're wearing name tags.
[00:37:42] (laughing)
[00:37:43] I mean, it takes them getting used to for some people,
[00:37:47] but I think it's so helpful.
[00:37:49] - Yeah.
[00:37:49] And this is an important point is that it's not just
[00:37:52] how you're welcoming them into the building.
[00:37:55] It really spills over into the whole Sunday morning
[00:37:59] experience, including worship.
[00:38:00] And are you thinking about the way you've designed
[00:38:04] your morning with your guests in mind?
[00:38:07] And I know the whole seeker sensitive thing.
[00:38:10] I don't understand how everything we do
[00:38:14] isn't trying to be seeker sensitive to some point.
[00:38:17] I mean, we're not compromising the truth of the gospel,
[00:38:20] but how do we just do it with the guest in mind?
[00:38:23] I think you have to think about all of those things,
[00:38:27] including the language you use.
[00:38:29] We joke all the time.
[00:38:30] It was years before I knew what a narthex was.
[00:38:33] And I worked in the church as a youth pastor.
[00:38:36] I had no idea what the pastor was talking about.
[00:38:38] The narthex finally I asked him.
[00:38:39] I felt so dumb.
[00:38:41] I'm like, what's a narthex?
[00:38:42] And he laughed at me, he said, it's the lobby.
[00:38:45] (laughing)
[00:38:47] - Yeah.
[00:38:48] - Yeah.
[00:38:49] - Well, you know, the whole idea of just,
[00:38:54] I like the phrase pulling people in,
[00:39:01] as opposed to bump on log.
[00:39:03] Anne-Marie and I attended a congregation in London
[00:39:06] some years ago, holy trinity, drop them.
[00:39:09] This thing was packed.
[00:39:11] And as you walked in, they were giving you coffee and donuts.
[00:39:16] And I said, you're giving them, as I walk into the room,
[00:39:21] 'cause in most American sanctuaries,
[00:39:23] there's a don't take food into.
[00:39:25] And they said, well, we want our people
[00:39:30] full of a little bit of energy and a good spirit.
[00:39:33] And, you know, the honest truth
[00:39:34] is all it takes is a vacuum player.
[00:39:37] (laughing)
[00:39:37] - Hello.
[00:39:38] - And that might push the envelope too much
[00:39:41] for some of the listeners now,
[00:39:42] but you get the idea, those people are looking for ways,
[00:39:47] 'cause there is something, you know,
[00:39:49] Halverson used to say,
[00:39:50] sacramental about breaking bread, just a donut.
[00:39:54] - Yeah, it's funny you say that.
[00:39:56] It's like churches are like, well,
[00:39:58] we don't wanna mess up the sanctuary.
[00:39:59] I mean, it's not gonna matter if there's nobody in it.
[00:40:02] Like, I think a coffee and a donut might go a long way
[00:40:05] with all the problems the American church is facing.
[00:40:07] It's worth a shot, right?
[00:40:08] (laughing)
[00:40:10] - It's, well, you know, you were asking about
[00:40:14] what a pastor might do.
[00:40:15] There's the train, the body that the people to greet
[00:40:20] and encourage them.
[00:40:22] And then the greeters themselves to have ways
[00:40:26] either of abandoning their post or having somebody
[00:40:30] so that if there's an actual new person
[00:40:34] who might need to know where do I take my eighth grader
[00:40:37] or how do I even find the right place to sit in the sanctuary,
[00:40:42] there's somebody to be with them, take them.
[00:40:45] - Yeah, and there's something,
[00:40:46] I think it's kind of the Ritz Carlton model
[00:40:48] of walking with them instead of just pointing down the hall
[00:40:52] or something like that.
[00:40:53] And I always thought one of the cool things
[00:40:55] they did in that environment was they empowered
[00:40:57] all their people to act on behalf of the organization.
[00:41:01] We're empowering you, we trust you to help people
[00:41:04] feel connected and like they're having
[00:41:08] a good experience here.
[00:41:09] So whatever you need to do to do that.
[00:41:11] So they let the janitor have like $2,000 budget
[00:41:14] to make it right for a guest that's having a bad experience.
[00:41:17] And I think empowering our people and saying we trust you
[00:41:19] to do really well with our mission, with our guests.
[00:41:22] And here's some of the ways that we think that can look,
[00:41:24] but I love that.
[00:41:25] Just letting your people loose,
[00:41:26] let them go and be that warm hospitable face and presence.
[00:41:31] - Well, and if you think about it,
[00:41:35] let's just say 20 to 50%,
[00:41:40] just 20% of the worshiping fellowship
[00:41:44] actually have the eyes of Jesus
[00:41:48] and either by themselves or with a buddy
[00:41:52] connect with people who are guests.
[00:41:55] It's gigantic.
[00:41:57] - And you just have to assume the pastor
[00:42:00] who's happy to talk to people often is neutralized.
[00:42:04] - Yeah.
[00:42:05] - Because folks are what I talk about stuff.
[00:42:07] - Yeah.
[00:42:08] - That's normal.
[00:42:09] - Well, Stan and Lee, it's so good talking to you.
[00:42:12] I feel like the four of us could probably talk
[00:42:14] for about six hours.
[00:42:15] (laughs)
[00:42:16] I was like, but thanks so much for coming on
[00:42:19] and building one another podcast.
[00:42:21] How can folks track with you and listen
[00:42:23] and find you guys online?
[00:42:25] It's very simple, buildingoneanother.com.
[00:42:28] - I love it.
[00:42:29] Everybody means encouragement and this is a podcast.
[00:42:32] The whole heart of the podcast is to encourage you
[00:42:35] to encourage others.
[00:42:36] So I encourage you to take a listen,
[00:42:38] building one another podcast.
[00:42:41] All right, everyone, thanks so much.
[00:42:42] And thank you guys again for being on with us today.
[00:42:45] - Jason, really fun to get to talk with Stan
[00:42:49] and Lee today and just kind of pick each other's brains
[00:42:52] about how do we do this?
[00:42:53] Every church is unique in the way that we are gonna
[00:42:55] welcome and greet, but there's some just really core
[00:42:57] principles that can service well.
[00:42:59] And so anyway, it was fun to get to talk shop
[00:43:02] and I would encourage you again, as we did there
[00:43:05] at the end to follow them, listen to their podcast,
[00:43:08] building one another as a source of encouragement
[00:43:10] and your leadership and the things that you're doing.
[00:43:12] But Jason, kind of big takeaways,
[00:43:14] anything that you were going, yeah,
[00:43:15] that's something I wanna hold onto and implement
[00:43:18] or I need to keep in mind as we're welcoming.
[00:43:21] Yes, in fact, as we're recording this,
[00:43:24] we're about a week out from our conversation with them
[00:43:28] and I put something to practice.
[00:43:30] I was thinking about their Emmaus principle,
[00:43:32] the idea of you're engaged with someone in conversation
[00:43:36] and but you wanna make sure that you get to the new person
[00:43:39] that you see, you wanna go meet them, engage with them
[00:43:41] or somebody you know you need to engage with.
[00:43:43] I was thinking about that.
[00:43:45] And so I was talking with somebody and I saw a new couple
[00:43:49] that I really wanted to go say hi to
[00:43:50] 'cause I could tell that they were new.
[00:43:52] You're asking questions at the desk and everything.
[00:43:55] So I said, hey, have you met this couple over here?
[00:43:58] I haven't.
[00:43:59] So come with me, let's go meet them.
[00:44:01] And it was a nice redirect because sometimes,
[00:44:04] again, you're engaged with people and I'll say this,
[00:44:09] you may not need to be.
[00:44:11] In other words, it's some of the same people
[00:44:13] want to engage you every time.
[00:44:15] And what you really need to do is to divide your time up
[00:44:19] especially to reach those new guests.
[00:44:21] So I was thinking about it because of our conversation
[00:44:24] and it was great and it worked.
[00:44:26] And we went over and we introduced ourselves
[00:44:27] and it was good.
[00:44:29] - Yeah, that's really neat.
[00:44:30] And this idea of walking with people,
[00:44:32] coming alongside them, not just pointing down the hall.
[00:44:35] I mean, all these things are just such important reminders
[00:44:37] of creating a warm hospitable welcoming environment
[00:44:40] where people can feel at home.
[00:44:43] And we take some of the maybe the obstacles
[00:44:45] that would get in the way out of the way.
[00:44:46] And we don't do it perfectly,
[00:44:48] but that's why we have to keep come back to the conversation.
[00:44:51] So really grateful, standardly, if you're listening,
[00:44:53] thanks for giving us your time
[00:44:54] and sharing your wisdom with us.
[00:44:56] - Absolutely.
[00:44:56] And you could look out for if you are a subscriber
[00:44:59] to our newsletter.
[00:45:00] So if you get our weekly email updates,
[00:45:03] we talk about podcast episodes,
[00:45:05] as well as some other articles and things like that.
[00:45:07] I'm gonna be talking about how do you build
[00:45:11] a guest services team from scratch?
[00:45:12] If you don't have that and if you're not sure what to do
[00:45:15] and how do you do it,
[00:45:16] how do you start doing it no matter what size your church is?
[00:45:18] How do you do it?
[00:45:19] What are the principles behind it?
[00:45:21] And how do you really sort of up level that
[00:45:23] even as quickly as in time for Easter?
[00:45:25] So we'll be talking about that.
[00:45:26] Look out for that in your inbox.
[00:45:28] If you're not a subscriber to that newsletter,
[00:45:30] you can just go to our website, reclaimleader.com.
[00:45:32] And there is a little button on there for a newsletter,
[00:45:35] sign up and you will get everything
[00:45:37] auto magically in the inbox.
[00:45:39] So yeah, anyway, any last thoughts before we sign off here?
[00:45:43] - Thanks Jason for always helping us with great tools
[00:45:46] and you should take advantage of those resources.
[00:45:48] Those are, that's gold, as you're thinking about how to,
[00:45:51] to move things forward and leading change
[00:45:53] and doing all the things,
[00:45:54] having those tools and your toolbed, really helpful.
[00:45:56] So thanks for putting that together.
[00:45:58] - All right, everyone.
[00:45:59] Well, listen, as we say all the time and we mean it,
[00:46:01] ministry is hard, it is so much better
[00:46:04] when we do it together.
[00:46:05] (upbeat music)
[00:46:08] (upbeat music)
[00:46:10] (upbeat music)
[00:46:14] (upbeat music)
[00:46:17] (upbeat music)