[00:00:00] It's always been a partnership, willingness to align to the principles of God or to God's
[00:00:06] voice in our lives is always a factor.
[00:00:09] The human from the human side, it takes alignment all the time, whether it's in our individual
[00:00:14] faith or of course what we do as churches.
[00:00:17] Welcome to episode 336.
[00:00:19] Jesus was always trying to align people with the Father's mission.
[00:00:23] Alignment is critically important for churches because it's about faithfulness.
[00:00:27] It's what closes the gap between the church you are and the church God is calling you to
[00:00:31] be.
[00:00:32] It's all about ministry alignment.
[00:00:34] That's today on The Reclaimed Leader.
[00:00:36] Hey everyone, welcome to episode 336 of The Reclaimed Leader.
[00:00:45] I'm Jason Tucker back again with Jesse Skiffington.
[00:00:48] It is post Easter man.
[00:00:50] We as we're recording this, we're back from our respective time away and it's
[00:00:55] good.
[00:00:56] It's good to be away.
[00:00:57] It's good to be away.
[00:00:58] Yeah, I was telling you, Jason, before we hit record that I bumped into a couple of other
[00:01:02] pastors during our week after Easter and it's sort of like the collective senior pastor
[00:01:08] vacation week after Easter.
[00:01:09] I mean there's a lot that goes into all of that and it's important that we take
[00:01:13] a deep breath and just get to recharge a little bit.
[00:01:17] But I came back, I was telling you from some of the stuff we did as a family hiking
[00:01:21] in some of the national parks in Arizona and Utah and I need a vacation for my
[00:01:25] vacation is what it comes down to.
[00:01:27] That's right.
[00:01:28] That's right.
[00:01:29] So again, in real time this week was I like to call it the apoc eclipse.
[00:01:37] Man, did that eclipse got more press than any eclipse I have ever seen?
[00:01:44] I mean they're not that rare, right?
[00:01:46] I mean they're like every eight-ish months or something.
[00:01:49] There's one.
[00:01:50] I mean you can go somewhere in the world two or three times a year and see
[00:01:53] one if you really are determined to do it.
[00:01:55] But I just the narrative of we're all gathered together under one thing
[00:02:00] greater than ourselves and we've put our politics aside Jason for this moment
[00:02:05] of staring up into the sky.
[00:02:07] It's a beautiful thing for the four minutes or whatever.
[00:02:09] Yeah, it was, I don't know, it didn't really do it for me.
[00:02:13] But listen, it meant a lot to a lot of people but I was thinking about
[00:02:17] this a funny segue into what we're talking about today.
[00:02:20] We're in our leadership lane this month and talking about leadership
[00:02:24] and I'm really excited for these next couple of conversations.
[00:02:28] And then next month talking about spiritual formation,
[00:02:31] I think the two kind of go hand in hand.
[00:02:33] But I was thinking about the alignment of the sun and the moon.
[00:02:37] Thinking about how they come together in this certain way
[00:02:41] and it's a little bit rare when we see the eclipse.
[00:02:45] And I mean this one was hard to miss because of all the communication about it.
[00:02:49] My goodness, I did a few.
[00:02:50] I had too much time in my hands, Jesse, because I wasn't preparing a sermon.
[00:02:55] And I went down some rabbit holes that I very much regret about how this is the end
[00:03:03] and Jesus is coming back and here's the proof and there's earthquakes in New Jersey
[00:03:07] and everything's going on.
[00:03:09] Dogs and cats playing together mass hysteria.
[00:03:14] But you know, school, the schools were sending letters home.
[00:03:17] Basically, don't let your kids stare at the sun.
[00:03:20] I love it.
[00:03:20] Which is fantastic that they had to send letters.
[00:03:24] You know, social media, the news, even church world.
[00:03:28] Everyone was talking about it.
[00:03:30] And I was thinking about the idea of alignment
[00:03:34] and the reason why I think this is important is because I think it has
[00:03:37] everything to do with good leadership.
[00:03:38] How's that for a segue into the principle?
[00:03:40] Yeah, nicely done, Jason.
[00:03:41] Aligning the...
[00:03:42] That's like relevant right.
[00:03:45] I like it.
[00:03:45] This is going to age well.
[00:03:46] This is going to age well.
[00:03:47] OK, it already has.
[00:03:50] So alignment, alignment in leadership, alignment in your church,
[00:03:54] I think is something that doesn't get talked about enough.
[00:03:57] Yeah.
[00:03:57] And I think because, tell me what you think, Jesse, but it feels like
[00:04:02] at first take when you say alignment and in church,
[00:04:06] it almost feels again, like maybe too corporate, too businessy world.
[00:04:13] Or to CEO, pastor, church kind of thing.
[00:04:18] I feel like I say alignment and people start to immediately resist.
[00:04:22] Is that in your experience?
[00:04:23] Yeah, I think so.
[00:04:24] I think it's one of those things when we're thinking in terms of alignment,
[00:04:27] it's definitely a corporate term that we throw around out there
[00:04:32] for the sake of efficiency and direction for, you know,
[00:04:35] the corporations and their health.
[00:04:36] And, you know, so it is out there in that sense.
[00:04:39] But if anything is about an alignment around a core mission
[00:04:43] and moving in the same direction together, it's the Christian faith
[00:04:46] and her life together as churches.
[00:04:48] So I think it's an appropriate term for us to wrestle with
[00:04:52] and think about how are we doing and making sure
[00:04:55] that things that we're doing and working on together
[00:04:57] and the way that we're living as leaders
[00:04:59] is in alignment with that mission.
[00:05:01] I think it's appropriate.
[00:05:02] But I get some of the resistance people go,
[00:05:05] be careful with your corporate speak in the church.
[00:05:07] It's a different thing.
[00:05:08] And I don't know, maybe does it feel like for people,
[00:05:11] maybe that we're diminishing God's activity
[00:05:15] or the way that the Holy Spirit moves and works?
[00:05:17] If we is it feel like we're taking control?
[00:05:19] I don't know.
[00:05:20] Yeah, maybe.
[00:05:21] And maybe some of that is just a little bit of allergic reaction
[00:05:24] to sort of leadership principles
[00:05:27] right in leadership world versus trusting in the Holy Spirit
[00:05:31] to do what only the Holy Spirit can do.
[00:05:33] But the thing that I always think about
[00:05:36] is it's always been a partnership in our willingness
[00:05:40] to align to the principles of God or to God's voice
[00:05:44] in our lives is always a factor.
[00:05:46] The human from the human side,
[00:05:48] it takes alignment all the time,
[00:05:51] whether it's an individual faith
[00:05:52] or of course what we do as church coming back
[00:05:55] to that true north, the compass heading, all that
[00:05:57] because it's what it's what keeps us focused
[00:06:00] on what matters most.
[00:06:01] And think about driving a car
[00:06:03] when your car is out of alignment.
[00:06:04] What are you doing the whole time?
[00:06:06] You're constantly having to correct.
[00:06:08] If you've ever had a long road trip
[00:06:10] when your car is just a little bit out of alignment
[00:06:12] and it's steering to the left or the right,
[00:06:14] your arm gets sore from holding it in place
[00:06:17] to where it ought to be.
[00:06:18] And then you notice when you finally get
[00:06:20] the car back in alignment, you're like,
[00:06:21] oh, this feels so good.
[00:06:22] It's doing what it's supposed to do.
[00:06:24] So I think it's a really helpful image
[00:06:28] that can help us reflect on our leadership
[00:06:30] and how things are going in our churches.
[00:06:33] Well, and here's the thing.
[00:06:34] I really do think that misalignment
[00:06:36] is why a lot of churches get stuck.
[00:06:38] I don't think a lot of churches are stuck
[00:06:40] because they don't believe in God enough.
[00:06:45] I mean, I guess that could be the case,
[00:06:46] but I don't think churches get stuck
[00:06:49] because they're not praying hard enough.
[00:06:52] They even get stuck because they're out of alignment
[00:06:56] with what God's calling them to do.
[00:06:58] They might even all agree with what they're supposed
[00:07:01] to do, but not have alignment on actually doing it.
[00:07:04] So I think it's a really important leadership fact
[00:07:06] and it takes leadership, right?
[00:07:07] I mean, alignment doesn't just happen.
[00:07:09] You don't accidentally drift into alignment.
[00:07:11] That's not how it works.
[00:07:12] It's like getting healthier.
[00:07:14] You don't just wake up one morning and like,
[00:07:15] oh man, you know, I've got killer abs
[00:07:18] and you know, I'm in perfect shape.
[00:07:22] I mean, wow, that's amazing.
[00:07:23] How did that happen?
[00:07:24] No, it takes great intention.
[00:07:27] So alignment takes a certain amount of precision
[00:07:30] and intention because it's all about
[00:07:33] getting people to work together,
[00:07:35] which I think is at the core of the body of Christ.
[00:07:38] How we, there's a supernaturality
[00:07:40] and a sociological reality.
[00:07:41] How are we doing that together?
[00:07:43] Just because people are gathered
[00:07:44] doesn't mean that they're aligned.
[00:07:47] So alignment, and this is how I'll define it,
[00:07:50] alignment is about framing ministry in such a way
[00:07:53] that the organization can readily share its purpose
[00:07:55] and values through a common language.
[00:07:59] How do we talk about how we do church together?
[00:08:02] How do we talk about what our values are
[00:08:05] and what our goals are and what the mission is
[00:08:08] in such a way that it is sticky as they say.
[00:08:11] It is, everybody can articulate it in some way
[00:08:16] and it's a shared language.
[00:08:18] So when I say X, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
[00:08:22] And I think that's one of the big barriers
[00:08:23] oftentimes in leadership, our staff, our elders,
[00:08:27] our key volunteers, they all know what we're talking about
[00:08:30] when we talk about vision, mission strategy.
[00:08:32] But someone who's visiting,
[00:08:35] who's only been in church a couple of times
[00:08:37] might not have any idea what that word means
[00:08:40] or that phrase or that framework means.
[00:08:42] So how do we do it in such a way
[00:08:44] that it is accessible to the congregation
[00:08:49] and it's something that they can rally around?
[00:08:51] Yeah, I think that's spot on.
[00:08:52] It's kind of like if you think about
[00:08:54] you're gonna take a group of people
[00:08:55] from one town to another, how do you get them over there
[00:08:59] and how do you move them in the same direction
[00:09:01] and be clear about it in a way
[00:09:02] that they can all understand and all that.
[00:09:04] And here's the thing that you're talking about alignment.
[00:09:06] If you're gonna go from one town to another
[00:09:09] and they're 10 miles apart say,
[00:09:11] and a few people are just a little bit out of alignment,
[00:09:14] even one or two degrees out of alignment.
[00:09:16] You go 10 miles down the road
[00:09:17] and you end up with people in different towns.
[00:09:20] And you've just missed it by a little tiny bit.
[00:09:24] And so I think it is about clarity and communication
[00:09:27] and putting the direction we're moving in
[00:09:30] out in front of people all the time
[00:09:31] and bringing people into alignment
[00:09:33] around common language, common direction
[00:09:36] and reiterating that over and over again.
[00:09:38] Even when we get tired of saying it,
[00:09:41] probably it needs to be said again, right?
[00:09:42] Yeah.
[00:09:43] So why does it matter?
[00:09:44] It matters because you're never gonna get
[00:09:47] where you want to go, but even more than that
[00:09:49] you're never really gonna get
[00:09:50] to where you feel God calling you to go
[00:09:54] in the same way if you don't have alignment
[00:09:56] because I mean, everything's conspiring against it.
[00:09:59] Everybody has their own agendas
[00:10:01] and their own vision of what they should do
[00:10:03] and everybody has an opinion
[00:10:05] of what they feel is right and wrong
[00:10:06] and everything else and that's fine.
[00:10:09] But if you have too many competing things
[00:10:11] you end up with ministry silos
[00:10:13] which is a big, big thing that happens.
[00:10:15] I definitely have experienced that
[00:10:17] especially in my youth ministry days
[00:10:19] when it's like youth ministry was so siloed
[00:10:21] from the rest of the church that those kids grew up
[00:10:23] and they didn't come back to church
[00:10:25] because they didn't even have any connection with it.
[00:10:29] There's like fighting for resources,
[00:10:32] there's different, you know,
[00:10:33] everybody has sort of a different goal or agenda.
[00:10:36] It's really hard to go somewhere together
[00:10:38] when you're all taking different cars.
[00:10:40] That's right.
[00:10:41] Or when you feel like it's almost like a tug war
[00:10:43] inside of the church sometimes
[00:10:45] when we have misalignment, yeah.
[00:10:47] So why does it matter?
[00:10:48] Well, you need alignment in order to work with other people
[00:10:51] and Jesus did this all the time.
[00:10:53] Think about what he just,
[00:10:54] what he did with the disciples.
[00:10:56] I mean, through his teaching and them observing him
[00:10:59] they started to get alignment about what the vision was,
[00:11:02] what's this rabbi teaching us?
[00:11:04] What do we suppose, how are we supposed to think
[00:11:07] and feel and what are we supposed to do?
[00:11:09] And then he gave them missions to go out and to do
[00:11:13] and it was an apprenticeship program, right?
[00:11:16] So he wanted alignment between vision
[00:11:18] and faithful implementation.
[00:11:20] And this is true with our churches as well,
[00:11:22] getting alignment because alignment is typically
[00:11:25] what closes the gap between our God-given vision
[00:11:31] and faithful implementation of that vision.
[00:11:34] That gap between the two is usually alignment.
[00:11:37] Right, and it takes leadership
[00:11:39] to bring that conversation to bear,
[00:11:41] especially if there are things that are out of alignment
[00:11:44] or aren't moving in the direction
[00:11:46] that the church feels called to go
[00:11:48] and it takes careful leadership to navigate
[00:11:51] that sensitive ground when we say,
[00:11:52] we're not gonna do this thing over here anymore
[00:11:54] because this is the direction we're heading in.
[00:11:57] Those are some of the hard points that come along.
[00:11:59] So what do we do about this, Jason?
[00:12:00] How do we work toward alignment
[00:12:04] and avoid some of the pitfalls of misalignment?
[00:12:07] Yeah, I think there are a few ideas
[00:12:10] that I wanna share today,
[00:12:11] just a few buckets to think about.
[00:12:14] I won't call them steps because they're not necessarily linear,
[00:12:17] but I think they work together.
[00:12:19] And things that I've learned about alignment
[00:12:21] when I was new in ministry and my goodness,
[00:12:23] why does everyone just think the way I do?
[00:12:26] Doesn't everyone get it?
[00:12:28] Well, no, because they haven't been
[00:12:29] through the same thought process.
[00:12:31] So alignment for me is,
[00:12:36] how is what we do reflecting who we are
[00:12:38] and who we're trying to reach
[00:12:40] and how do we all agree on that together?
[00:12:42] So I think it starts out with
[00:12:44] you need to have a very clearly articulated vision
[00:12:49] of what you wanna do.
[00:12:50] And I don't necessarily mean a big vision statement.
[00:12:52] It could be just a vision
[00:12:53] for a particular ministry idea that you have,
[00:12:57] but it needs to be clear.
[00:12:59] So I think it's a three-part structure,
[00:13:04] a purpose statement of some kind
[00:13:06] or a vision statement, wanna call it?
[00:13:09] Or a purpose statement, a vision
[00:13:11] and the means to do it.
[00:13:13] So here's what I would say, your purpose.
[00:13:17] What, the purpose of what we're doing
[00:13:19] is what needs to be understood really clearly.
[00:13:21] And it's like a sentence or two.
[00:13:25] Our purpose is to connect college students
[00:13:29] with the life of the church when they come home from break.
[00:13:33] Like it could be something that clear.
[00:13:35] And then, okay, well, what's our vision around that?
[00:13:38] What do we hope happens?
[00:13:40] Our hope is that they will feel so connected
[00:13:43] that they'll develop key relationships to sustain them.
[00:13:50] And then, okay, then what's the means?
[00:13:51] Well, how are we gonna do it?
[00:13:52] How are we gonna make it happen?
[00:13:53] And that's when we get into our idealist
[00:13:55] or our strategy list.
[00:13:56] And okay, there's some things we're gonna do.
[00:13:57] We're gonna do a couple of get-togethers
[00:14:00] a couple times a year when they're on break.
[00:14:02] And we're gonna do a fun thing
[00:14:03] and we're gonna also offer a virtual check-in
[00:14:07] maybe halfway through this semester.
[00:14:09] Something like that, right?
[00:14:11] That's kind of the how we're gonna do it.
[00:14:13] So purpose, understanding what we're trying to do, vision,
[00:14:17] what do we hope happens as a result of what we're doing
[00:14:20] and then how are we gonna do it?
[00:14:21] What are the things that we're gonna try?
[00:14:23] And if you get those first two right,
[00:14:24] the how and the what part, that comes fast.
[00:14:27] I mean, we all have all kinds of ideas
[00:14:28] but when you can get clear around the direction
[00:14:31] and the purpose and the intention behind it,
[00:14:34] then you're gonna get alignment
[00:14:36] with those ideas that are gonna come.
[00:14:37] If you have a vague sense of what's gonna happen
[00:14:40] or what you hope happens,
[00:14:42] then the ideas are gonna be all over the place
[00:14:44] and probably not gonna necessarily move
[00:14:46] in the direction of where you wanna go.
[00:14:47] So I think that's spot on, Jason,
[00:14:48] getting clear about the purpose and the vision,
[00:14:50] the how and the what will kind of take care of itself
[00:14:52] as you get past that point.
[00:14:54] Yeah, and clarity is really the answer
[00:14:57] to getting the ball rolling on alignment
[00:15:00] because again, if you're not clear,
[00:15:03] how do you have alignment
[00:15:04] around something that's really confusing
[00:15:05] or isn't clear enough, you don't.
[00:15:08] So you could do that for your whole church.
[00:15:11] You could do a great big sweeping vision statement.
[00:15:13] I mean, think about Walt Disney Company.
[00:15:16] So regardless of what you think about Walt Disney Company,
[00:15:19] you have to say they've been pretty effective
[00:15:21] over the years.
[00:15:22] Harvard Business Review,
[00:15:24] this is from an article they did on leadership.
[00:15:28] It says the Walt Disney Company's purpose,
[00:15:31] so that here's the purpose statement
[00:15:32] is to create happiness by providing
[00:15:34] the finest in entertainment for people of all ages everywhere.
[00:15:38] How Disney creates happiness
[00:15:40] is by offering a range of consumer products,
[00:15:43] Disney Store publishing, licensing, entertainment,
[00:15:46] Walt Disney Studios Pixar Marvel
[00:15:48] and experiences, parks and resorts.
[00:15:51] It wins by pursuing high performance in each area
[00:15:54] and by using each to support the others.
[00:15:58] So again, it's not a big long statement,
[00:16:00] it's just clarity that helps to fuel their behavior.
[00:16:07] So they all agree on the shared language around it,
[00:16:11] they agree on what the goals are, right?
[00:16:13] The purpose, the vision and then the means,
[00:16:16] so that's really purpose and vision
[00:16:18] and then the means is okay, well how we do
[00:16:20] in all this in our day-to-day practice.
[00:16:23] So a given idea just in our own church.
[00:16:26] So Tower Hill, we say our purpose is to lead people
[00:16:29] into a growing relationship with Jesus
[00:16:32] by becoming a church for all generations,
[00:16:34] that's our vision, through intentional
[00:16:37] spiritual formation pathways, that's our means.
[00:16:41] So again, short to the point,
[00:16:43] but the more people can hear this over and over again,
[00:16:48] the greater shot you have at aligning them around it.
[00:16:51] To me, it's the most effective way of getting alignment
[00:16:53] is having some sort of very clear starting point.
[00:16:57] And yes, you could say, well, it's the great commission,
[00:16:58] okay, great, well then take some time
[00:17:00] and really lay out what the great commission is
[00:17:02] and how you're going to specifically serve it.
[00:17:05] Well, and some for all of our churches,
[00:17:07] our purpose and vision statements
[00:17:09] should be some articulation of the great commission.
[00:17:12] Otherwise, what are we doing?
[00:17:13] What are we doing exactly?
[00:17:14] So it's your version of that in the context
[00:17:17] in which you find yourself.
[00:17:18] And so for us, it's be a flourishing church
[00:17:20] that makes disciples of Jesus Christ.
[00:17:22] How?
[00:17:23] Well, our vision is to create environments
[00:17:26] where people are mobilized to go deep with Jesus
[00:17:28] and reach wider with his love.
[00:17:29] And so what are we gonna do?
[00:17:31] Well, we're gonna work on creating those environments
[00:17:33] across the whole of our life.
[00:17:34] So let's go and do that.
[00:17:36] So what's that gonna look like for each environment,
[00:17:37] for youth and kids and adults and everything else?
[00:17:40] Well, that's the how in the what part,
[00:17:41] but you gotta get the top end first.
[00:17:44] Otherwise it's gonna be really hard
[00:17:45] to get alignment around the things
[00:17:47] that you're trying to do.
[00:17:48] And then making the decisions about where the budget goes
[00:17:50] and how we're gonna do all that
[00:17:52] and divide up our staff and all the things.
[00:17:54] So you gotta get that part right.
[00:17:56] When you look at the corporate world,
[00:17:58] I feel like you get better examples.
[00:18:02] I just don't, they're just not a ton of churches
[00:18:04] that I think are doing this at a high, high level.
[00:18:08] So if you ever go into like a Ben and Jerry's
[00:18:11] or a Whole Foods or someplace where they have
[00:18:13] the mission and vision on the wall
[00:18:15] for all the customers to see, just take a look at it.
[00:18:18] And you'll sort of see, they've gotten really good
[00:18:20] at this because it's the only way
[00:18:21] they can scale what they're doing
[00:18:23] is to be really hyper clear on that purpose vision
[00:18:28] means that they're all about.
[00:18:30] So I do think this helps our churches kind of coalesce
[00:18:37] and get that initial alignment.
[00:18:39] Okay, so that's the first step
[00:18:41] is clarity around that purpose vision means second,
[00:18:45] oh again, not a step but a bucket
[00:18:46] is make sure the folks in your congregation
[00:18:49] whether they are your leadership or your lay people
[00:18:52] that they have some skin in the game.
[00:18:55] What do I mean?
[00:18:56] I don't just mean, well, make sure they're giving money
[00:19:00] to whatever we're going to do.
[00:19:02] That's not exactly it.
[00:19:03] It may include that but skin in the game
[00:19:06] is get them to understand what's the transformation goal
[00:19:11] of the purpose and vision?
[00:19:13] Like what are you trying to accomplish?
[00:19:15] So let's go back to that college student example.
[00:19:17] We want them to have a deeper connection with the church
[00:19:20] at a time when they're probably
[00:19:22] not deeply connected with church.
[00:19:25] Like because we think that's gonna matter in their life.
[00:19:27] We think when they go through a crisis,
[00:19:29] maybe they're changing majors,
[00:19:31] maybe they don't know what they're gonna do
[00:19:33] when they graduate in a year.
[00:19:34] Maybe they're starting to panic
[00:19:36] about their student loan repayments
[00:19:37] or whatever it is or relationships.
[00:19:40] We wanna make sure that we have relationships
[00:19:42] that they're gonna turn to
[00:19:44] that they're tethered to the life of the church
[00:19:47] even while they're away.
[00:19:49] And maybe I would tell a story or two
[00:19:51] about some college students who have felt
[00:19:55] the gravity and also the appreciation of that.
[00:20:00] So share the transformation goals,
[00:20:03] help them understand why we're doing it
[00:20:05] and then get them to engage
[00:20:08] or participate in the process early on.
[00:20:11] This is a lot like what we talk about
[00:20:12] when we talk about initiating change
[00:20:14] and how you wanna generate buy-in.
[00:20:16] It's a similar idea.
[00:20:17] You want them to feel like they have a voice in it.
[00:20:20] Even if the idea is not fully baked,
[00:20:23] she's like, hey, we're trying to do this thing because
[00:20:26] and then state your transformation goal.
[00:20:28] What do you guys think about this?
[00:20:30] Is this something that you think we as a church
[00:20:32] should really rally around?
[00:20:33] Well, yes, yeah, we think that's great.
[00:20:34] Okay, so be on the lookout.
[00:20:37] Our team's starting to work on some ideas.
[00:20:38] If you have any ideas, send them to
[00:20:42] Jesse at awesomechurch.com or whatever.
[00:20:45] Send them in and over the next couple of weeks,
[00:20:47] we're gonna be working on putting our plan together.
[00:20:49] But you certainly mean they're getting some skin
[00:20:51] in the game early.
[00:20:52] Yeah, I think I've spot on.
[00:20:54] I think I mentioned this before,
[00:20:55] but we started a brainstorm with us, Whiteboard.
[00:20:58] Yeah, yeah, I love this.
[00:20:59] We just like a lot of times the brainstorms
[00:21:02] are things that we've already thought of
[00:21:04] or will never do because they're unrealistic
[00:21:06] or maybe they worked 30 years ago, but won't work now.
[00:21:09] But that's not the point.
[00:21:10] It's to get people thinking along with you
[00:21:12] and getting some input and us saying,
[00:21:15] we care about what you think about this
[00:21:16] and sometimes the best ideas come from that Whiteboard.
[00:21:20] So you never know what might percolate up to the surface,
[00:21:23] but at the very least you're saying to everybody,
[00:21:25] this is a group thing.
[00:21:26] We're thinking about this together
[00:21:28] and we wanna hear your thoughts
[00:21:30] or we want you to have skin in the game
[00:21:31] as we're tackling this thing.
[00:21:33] Yeah.
[00:21:34] And again, the more people feel like they're a part of it,
[00:21:37] the more likely they are to really support it
[00:21:39] in every way you wanna support it.
[00:21:41] That's a big creator of alignment.
[00:21:44] All right.
[00:21:45] The third bucket is,
[00:21:47] and this might not sound totally spiritual,
[00:21:50] but I promise you it is,
[00:21:53] count the actual cost, not the estimated cost.
[00:21:59] Don't guess at what sort of resources
[00:22:02] you're gonna need to do the thing.
[00:22:03] Don't guess financially or human resources
[00:22:07] or time or space.
[00:22:10] Be really good at counting the cost
[00:22:13] of whatever you're trying to align together
[00:22:16] because it's gonna cost something.
[00:22:18] I'll give you an example of,
[00:22:20] this is just a recent example.
[00:22:21] So some of you who are on us,
[00:22:22] there's subscriber list, you get our newsletter.
[00:22:25] I was talking about how over spring break
[00:22:27] my son and I went to Orlando, went to Universal.
[00:22:33] So here's a good counting the cost idea.
[00:22:37] So on every major attraction,
[00:22:40] they have the estimated wait time posted.
[00:22:44] And I love this feature.
[00:22:47] And for the most part, it's updated on their apps,
[00:22:50] it's updated everywhere so that you know exactly
[00:22:53] what you're getting yourself into
[00:22:55] before you decide to wait in line for that ride.
[00:22:58] I gotta tell you, it's actually liberating.
[00:23:01] It helps you come to an educated decision
[00:23:03] on what you're gonna do at that given moment
[00:23:05] while you're visiting the park.
[00:23:08] And, okay so the wait time's 65 minutes.
[00:23:11] All right, we got some time,
[00:23:13] but listen I think this ride's gonna be worth it
[00:23:15] and the line might be longer later.
[00:23:17] This might be a good time to just wait in line.
[00:23:19] And then while you're in line, what are they doing?
[00:23:22] They're psyching you up for the ride.
[00:23:24] There's all sorts of cool things going on
[00:23:27] even just while you're waiting.
[00:23:29] I feel like this helps you to calculate the cost
[00:23:33] but it helps you even enjoy the cost
[00:23:36] as much as possible along the way.
[00:23:38] I think this is what we should be doing
[00:23:41] when we're trying to create alignment.
[00:23:47] I'll put it this way, I had this in my notes.
[00:23:49] Nothing derails like ignoring the details.
[00:23:54] Because what happens is if you sugarcoat
[00:23:57] how much you think, hey we're gonna need,
[00:23:59] I think we're gonna need maybe 500 bucks
[00:24:00] and we're gonna do this thing
[00:24:03] and we're gonna need four volunteers
[00:24:05] and we're gonna need our fellowship hall
[00:24:09] and we're gonna need some couple of people
[00:24:12] to make some food, right?
[00:24:14] And then it turns out your vision needs $5,000
[00:24:18] and you totally underestimated the response.
[00:24:21] You realize you're gonna have to overspend on the food.
[00:24:23] You're not prepared.
[00:24:24] Then all of a sudden at the end of the thing
[00:24:26] maybe you're happy with the results
[00:24:27] but every looks back I like that cost us seven times
[00:24:31] what you said it was.
[00:24:32] That's not a great way of producing alignment
[00:24:35] especially for the next time.
[00:24:37] Yeah, yeah.
[00:24:38] It's hard and sometimes it's hard to know
[00:24:41] count the cost or whatever
[00:24:42] but I think a good principle related to that
[00:24:44] is be careful what you promise
[00:24:47] and then what you deliver on.
[00:24:49] Like if you say you're gonna spend 500 bucks
[00:24:51] then maybe that's what you gotta stick to this time
[00:24:53] and learn your lesson next time
[00:24:55] to count the cost a little differently.
[00:24:56] But getting as much clarity around that as you can
[00:24:59] is helpful.
[00:25:00] I think asking good questions
[00:25:01] about what you're trying to do is a good way to do that
[00:25:04] and really thinking down to the unintended consequences
[00:25:08] or the unintended costs.
[00:25:10] So you mentioned four volunteers.
[00:25:12] Well, where are those four volunteers being pulled from?
[00:25:15] Yeah.
[00:25:16] Are we gonna take them from children's ministry
[00:25:17] and put them toward this new thing?
[00:25:19] Or so it's kind of counting that cost as just being wise
[00:25:23] and thinking about its impact on the organization
[00:25:25] and on the resources that are available.
[00:25:28] And when people have a sense of that cost
[00:25:30] even if it's expensive or a big cost
[00:25:34] at least then they know what they're getting themselves into
[00:25:36] kind of like your ride, right?
[00:25:37] Yeah, exactly right.
[00:25:39] And as long as you communicate
[00:25:41] this is what I've discovered.
[00:25:42] If you're communicating in real time with people
[00:25:44] even if the plan changes
[00:25:46] they're usually pretty supportive.
[00:25:48] In fact, they usually step up bigger.
[00:25:51] So sometimes you'll be in this thing and be like
[00:25:53] okay listen I totally underestimate
[00:25:55] what this is gonna cost
[00:25:56] but we have twice as many college students
[00:26:00] sign up than we thought
[00:26:01] and people get excited about that.
[00:26:03] And somebody usually be like
[00:26:04] you know what I will underwrite the rest.
[00:26:07] Right.
[00:26:07] Like people step up to that
[00:26:08] because they believe if you did a good job
[00:26:11] setting up the transformation that you're hoping to see
[00:26:14] then they believe in it, they'll be with you
[00:26:16] but don't hit them with it later, right?
[00:26:19] Not after the fact, right?
[00:26:20] Yeah, don't do it after the fact.
[00:26:21] I always tell our staff team and key volunteers
[00:26:25] if you think you're gonna be over budget
[00:26:27] this year or on this event
[00:26:28] just let us know ahead of time.
[00:26:30] Don't wait till afterward
[00:26:32] because if it's ahead of time we can get excited with you
[00:26:34] or try to find some resources
[00:26:35] to help cover the gap or whatever
[00:26:37] but if you wait till after
[00:26:38] it just feels like you're undisciplined.
[00:26:40] So please don't do that.
[00:26:42] It does happen sometimes
[00:26:43] but let's do our best to be out in front.
[00:26:46] Yeah.
[00:26:47] Yeah, so if it's a big thing
[00:26:49] we usually include a 10% overage in our calculations.
[00:26:53] So it's just kind of baked into
[00:26:54] the tendency is your friend.
[00:26:56] So do that for sure.
[00:26:58] Exactly, okay.
[00:26:59] And then the fourth bucket
[00:27:00] and this is maybe the most
[00:27:03] I've got the most kind of notes on
[00:27:05] is be intentional about how
[00:27:08] and when you talk about it
[00:27:12] you know your purpose
[00:27:13] and your vision and your means
[00:27:15] be intentional about how
[00:27:15] and when you talk about it.
[00:27:16] So be intentional about the way
[00:27:19] you talk about it with your language.
[00:27:21] You wanna use language
[00:27:23] that everybody shares again
[00:27:25] so that when you say X
[00:27:27] everybody knows you're talking about X
[00:27:29] and then be consistent
[00:27:31] about when you talk about it.
[00:27:32] Bake it into your language
[00:27:34] you use everywhere.
[00:27:35] So a couple examples.
[00:27:37] I think North Point's great example
[00:27:39] is when they talk about spiritual formation
[00:27:42] they talk about their five faith catalysts
[00:27:44] or five things God uses to grow your faith,
[00:27:47] practical teaching, private disciplines,
[00:27:49] personal ministry,
[00:27:50] pivotal circumstance
[00:27:51] and providential relationships.
[00:27:54] They use that everywhere.
[00:27:56] They use that everywhere.
[00:27:56] So that everybody who's been there a minute
[00:28:00] they've heard these,
[00:28:01] they recognize them,
[00:28:02] they know it's part of their spiritual discipleship journey
[00:28:06] at North Point Community Church.
[00:28:10] Here at Tower Hill
[00:28:13] the way that we envision it
[00:28:16] or is a pathway of spiritual growth
[00:28:20] that our image is like stones
[00:28:23] you would use to cross a river
[00:28:26] and we use idea of next steps.
[00:28:28] What's the next step for you across?
[00:28:31] Not that it's necessary linear
[00:28:33] but everybody no matter where you are
[00:28:35] could take a step
[00:28:36] and all steps are good forward movement towards God.
[00:28:39] So we talk about step one, jump into worship.
[00:28:43] Step two, talk with a pastor.
[00:28:45] Let us know where you're at.
[00:28:47] Where are you right now?
[00:28:48] What's going on with you?
[00:28:49] Let us make a personal connection.
[00:28:51] Number three, join the mission through service
[00:28:54] whether it's missions to our community
[00:28:56] or just serving within the local church.
[00:28:59] Step four, find your people
[00:29:01] whether it's your fellowship or small groups
[00:29:03] and step five become a partner.
[00:29:05] Give, be willing to lead.
[00:29:07] Maybe you wanna lead a team of volunteers.
[00:29:09] Maybe you want to get into be a church officer.
[00:29:12] Maybe, right?
[00:29:14] And the idea is
[00:29:17] everybody knows that these steps are there.
[00:29:20] They're on our website.
[00:29:21] We talk about them all the time
[00:29:23] so that when it comes across at the right time,
[00:29:26] they're like, oh okay, I think I need to take that step.
[00:29:29] And again, shared language.
[00:29:31] So when I say next steps
[00:29:32] to somebody who's been in our church for a while
[00:29:34] they're not confused.
[00:29:35] They know what I'm talking about.
[00:29:36] Even if they don't remember all the steps
[00:29:38] doesn't matter.
[00:29:38] They know what I'm talking about.
[00:29:40] Yeah, I think that's really spot on
[00:29:41] and every church, I mean
[00:29:42] you can come up with a thousand different versions
[00:29:45] of that same kind of idea
[00:29:47] and just making it clear to people
[00:29:49] where are the areas for them to grow or to take steps?
[00:29:53] So we connect around for them
[00:29:54] connecting, learning, leading and serving.
[00:29:57] Take some steps in one of those areas.
[00:29:59] I mean, it's not rocket science
[00:30:00] but it's a language that we're gonna use
[00:30:02] again and again and again.
[00:30:03] And people go, oh connecting.
[00:30:04] That's fellowship, that's worship.
[00:30:06] That's, you know, those things.
[00:30:07] Oh, learning.
[00:30:08] That's this part over here.
[00:30:10] So it just provides a shared language
[00:30:12] that helps create clarity for people
[00:30:15] about what is available
[00:30:16] and what we hope will happen for them
[00:30:19] as they grow in faith.
[00:30:21] There are some folks too,
[00:30:22] they're like, well, what if, you know,
[00:30:25] Jason, what if my church is small?
[00:30:28] I mean, do I need alignment like this?
[00:30:33] The answer is yes.
[00:30:33] In fact, now is the time.
[00:30:36] Now's the time.
[00:30:36] You have the greatest shot
[00:30:38] at the greatest amount of alignment
[00:30:40] if you're a small church.
[00:30:42] And I think it matters
[00:30:44] because what happens, especially in small churches
[00:30:47] is that fewer and fewer people,
[00:30:49] or what I mean is out of a fewer group of people,
[00:30:52] there's more power in each person.
[00:30:55] So there's a greater shot of people not being aligned
[00:31:00] because they all kind of wheeled
[00:31:03] a little bit more weight to throw around
[00:31:06] because for lots of reasons.
[00:31:09] So getting alignment around things
[00:31:13] can even be more powerful, I think,
[00:31:15] if you're a smaller church.
[00:31:16] I think any size church, it really doesn't matter.
[00:31:18] I think it's equally important for all of them.
[00:31:21] Well, yeah, and in the smaller church context,
[00:31:23] I think there's something incredible
[00:31:25] and beautiful about a group of people
[00:31:26] moving in a direction together
[00:31:28] that's possible there.
[00:31:31] I think it creates a unique circumstance
[00:31:33] or unique opportunity for churches
[00:31:34] that are on the smaller side,
[00:31:36] that's a healthy one for.
[00:31:38] Do it, explore it.
[00:31:39] And if somebody's just unwilling to go along
[00:31:42] in that direction, I don't know what you do.
[00:31:44] I guess you let them wander off
[00:31:45] and I don't know how do you deal with that, Jason?
[00:31:48] That's probably a whole nother conversation.
[00:31:50] But when it's in the direction of moving.
[00:31:52] It happens no matter what
[00:31:54] because you're dealing with human beings
[00:31:55] and you probably won't get 100% alignment
[00:31:58] but I think if we're intentional about it,
[00:32:01] we got a greater shot of implementation
[00:32:04] of the vision that God has given us,
[00:32:05] the purpose and the vision that God's given us.
[00:32:08] So how about you, pastors?
[00:32:09] Where are you hoping to get alignment in your church?
[00:32:13] Do you feel like there's some ministry areas
[00:32:15] or maybe your overall vision
[00:32:16] or places where you feel like you need it?
[00:32:19] We did create a free alignment guide for you.
[00:32:22] If you're interested,
[00:32:23] you can simply go to reclaimleader.com forward slash align.
[00:32:28] That's reclaimleader.com forward slash align,
[00:32:30] download the free guide and use that hopefully
[00:32:33] to start thinking about
[00:32:35] how you can start getting alignment in your congregation.
[00:32:38] I know, Jesse, like,
[00:32:41] I really love this topic of leadership this month.
[00:32:44] I know we both do.
[00:32:45] We love talking about it.
[00:32:46] And I think it's because
[00:32:50] obviously theology has yielded
[00:32:54] more important fruit.
[00:32:57] I think I could safely say,
[00:33:01] through seminary and theological education,
[00:33:03] I think it's a great opportunity
[00:33:05] to be a pastor and everything to prepare me to be a pastor.
[00:33:08] But leadership
[00:33:12] is probably right there, number two.
[00:33:15] And leadership is something I had,
[00:33:19] maybe had instincts for,
[00:33:20] but had no idea how to do
[00:33:23] when I got into my first church.
[00:33:25] I mean, this is all like,
[00:33:26] I wish somebody sat down with me
[00:33:28] or I wish I had a podcast to listen to
[00:33:30] guys, men or women who are like me
[00:33:34] in the same kind of church I was helping me understand
[00:33:37] what the heck do I do?
[00:33:39] So I feel like this is a big one for me
[00:33:41] is alignment of organizations
[00:33:42] is not something that came naturally.
[00:33:45] I had to really learn that the hard way.
[00:33:46] You learn that skill over time,
[00:33:48] how to get a bunch of people from one place to another
[00:33:50] together it's hard.
[00:33:51] And if you need practice on that, just go play.
[00:33:53] You remember the game Lemmings?
[00:33:54] You remember that game?
[00:33:55] Yeah.
[00:33:56] You know what Lemmings,
[00:33:57] you don't want people that are just like sheep
[00:33:58] that follow, but getting people to move together
[00:34:01] safely to the destination.
[00:34:03] That is the goal.
[00:34:04] How do we do that?
[00:34:04] And what are some of the things
[00:34:06] that you know we can work on to get us there?
[00:34:08] So thanks for helping us think about that today, Jason.
[00:34:10] And this idea of alignment,
[00:34:12] creating alignment around a specific vision
[00:34:14] or purpose that you're trying to accomplish
[00:34:16] I think it's spot on for our leadership.
[00:34:19] All right everyone, well,
[00:34:20] I hope this is helpful to you.
[00:34:21] Hope that you'll grab the guide
[00:34:22] and it's something useful for you and your congregation.
[00:34:25] And as we always say ministry is hard,
[00:34:27] it is so much better when we do it together.