[00:00:00] Great theology and a great theological process do not guarantee an effective sermon. Unfortunately, some of the most beautifully theological constructed sermons can be like listening to a white noise machine and put you right to sleep. Welcome to episode 344.
[00:00:16] Research shows that 65% of people are visual learners but I think it's safe to say that nearly 100% are visual in gagers. We're thinking preaching, we're a visually engaged culture and hopefully having a greater impact. That's today and the Reclaimed Leader. Hey everyone, welcome to episode 344 of the Reclaimed Leader.
[00:00:42] We're just two pastors working for revitalization and change in our congregations and we're passionate about it and we're hoping to help everybody who wants to listen. I'm Jason Tucker back again with Jesse Skiffington has a comment.
[00:00:54] And I'm good Jason, we love talking shop, thinking about how do we do this thing? How do we make disciples? How do we encourage people to really live their faith and how do we help those that are in leading in the church like you?
[00:01:06] And how do we help our churches flourish and make the changes that need to be made in order to move forward? It's this constant, never-ending process. And yet there's things we can do to really make an impact on that and be part of a congregation
[00:01:21] that we're not only excited to be at but also seeing some fruit come out up. So that's the desire. You know, talking shop for a purpose. Yeah, I don't know if it's this job security Jesse but there's a never-ending supply of targets to try to hit.
[00:01:34] I know it's gone. Well, and then I think the other cool part about being a leader in probably any industry but you have kind of evolving layers or depth of understanding of the various issues and
[00:01:46] different seasons bring different perspectives or ways of looking at stuff and it in some ways all of this kind of had a reset in the pandemic and we had to look up and go how do we do it now?
[00:01:56] So yeah, I love that as a kind of ever ongoing conversation that we get to have together. Yeah, so we're just coming out of this little mini series couple episodes. We did around apologetics and discipleship and just kind of cool we had our episode with
[00:02:14] J Warner Wallace and we were talking a bit of a apologetics last week. So I wanted to go into something only because I've been asked about this lately frequently and that is about preaching.
[00:02:26] So I want to start to talk about this by acknowledging that research says 65% of people are visual learners. So if you know or you remember the different styles, there's four different styles of learning, visual auditory reading writing and kinesthetic, 65% are just natural visual learners.
[00:02:50] I think 99% are visual engages. In other words, they're going to be engaged by something visual before they're engaged by something auditory reading writing, kinesthetic, right? So what does that mean for preaching? I'll give you just a quick story to kind of illustrate this. So let's see, 991.
[00:03:19] And I am in Vermont on our family vacation that we've gone to every year since my grandparents. I mean, lots of generations every year by the lake sitting in a cabin. I'm out in our little rented robot and we're fishing for small mouth-ass. It's high noon.
[00:03:37] It's like a hundred degrees and it's like a cot we're just baking out on the water. It's the worst time to try to fish, but we're out there fishing or whatever.
[00:03:46] And I pull up on the rod and I think I'm stuck on the bottom and I'm just cursing under my breath and my mom's on the boat with me and something like that.
[00:04:02] But I'm cursing under my breath and I'm stuck and I'm thinking about, I got to cut the line properly and start over again. My gosh, shouldn't be out here anyway. Anyway, I start cranking on the line and I felt it moved. I was like, what?
[00:04:19] And I start real in in and I realize there's something on the other end of this line. I'm not stuck on the bottom. As I reel in, I'm fighting and I'm acting like, you know, it's a thousand pound marlin.
[00:04:32] But I'm fighting this thing for what seems like a really long time and I can picture everything around. I can be the look on my mom's face. I could picture the color of the water, which Lake Champlain in Vermont is very clear.
[00:04:48] But as you things beneath the water have sort of a greenish yellow tint and as I'm real again, I even realize I keep repeating over and over. I just want to see it. I just want to see it.
[00:04:59] In case the fish breaks out, I just want to see it. Let's see how big this thing is. Just want to see it. Just want to see it. And then I saw it bubble up and it's a big fish. It's a bass.
[00:05:07] And then and then my, I just, what I'm thinking about. I start repeating, just want to get it in the net. Just want to get it in the net. Get it in the net. And my cousin is there and he's got the net ready.
[00:05:20] A couple of the first couple of tries, he doesn't net it. And you know, if you fish at all, you know, that's not good. You know, the fish can get away at any time. And so finally, we successfully net the fish and the look on my mother's face.
[00:05:33] I mean, just smiling ear to ear. And I pick up that fish and it was a five pound small mouth fast, which is a big small mouth fast. And in fact, it's a large just one I've ever caught.
[00:05:46] And I could tell you even as I tell that story, I remember everything. I can remember what everything looked like. I can remember everybody in the boat. I can even remember what I was wearing. And I could remember, I feel like I can remember this smell. Why?
[00:06:03] Because all of my senses and emotions were engaged. I was completely engaged in that moment, and I will remember it forever. So let's talk about preaching. Yeah. We want people to, of course, we want to get their attention. And we want them to have comprehension.
[00:06:26] But how do we make sure they have retention? How do we make sure that the word of God sticks to their life in such a way that they can't forget it? They can put it into practice, that they can make it a part of their lives.
[00:06:46] And I think it's everything to do with the fact that 99% of people are visual engageers. And how do we not just hit them in the ears, but also with the eyes at a shot of reaching their hearts? So that's what we're talking about today.
[00:07:02] I switched to visual preaching a long time ago and I just kind of want to share and dig into my process. And I know Jesse, you've got some things that you do. We're going to just kind of collaborate because I know some pastors are thinking about,
[00:07:15] what do I do? The normal sermon's designed to be listened to. And are we really making it as effective as it could be? Yeah, I think it's a really important question to evaluate. Are we engaging people in a more well-rounded way in this unique opportunity of a one-way
[00:07:34] conversation? I mean, it's a one-way conversation, but can we engage their hearts and minds and imaginations in there? Maybe even their emotions and their senses in this. I imagine, you know, I was, as you're sharing that story.
[00:07:45] I'm having been on a lot of fishing boats in my life. There's their smells associated with that as well. Maybe we need to go to four-dimensional preaching Jason, kind of like the black, universal with that spray, even the face with water and the love.
[00:07:59] We're talking about Jesus out on the storm with wok Peter walking on the water. We could really have some fun with that stuff. I've never forget it then, right? Well, think about it though.
[00:08:09] So what the sermon has been for a long time, maybe just needs to be adapted. Listen, newspapers, magazines, bookstores all had to shift to a changing reality. A video will beat print media every single time. It's not even close. Everybody knows this.
[00:08:28] I think the Bible project is a great example. Bible project really brings scripture to life through super engaging videos that are really good. I'm not saying it's all good that we are so visually inclined, but it's reality. It's 100% reality.
[00:08:44] So how do we make sure the word of God is not only faithfully proclaimed, but most effectively received? That's really what we're getting. When I think we've adapted into a much more visual moment in time where we have all this
[00:08:55] digital media available to us to utilize, whereas finding images and things to put into a sermon back in the 60s and 70s and try to figure out how to get it on a screen, probably wasn't a very serviceable model, but now we have so much available to us.
[00:09:09] We're going to get into some of the tools and the specifics of it, but we can do that without too much trouble these days. If we have a laptop, we're pretty much ready to go to be able to do a little more
[00:09:21] well-rounded presentation for people to engage with. So I like that we're talking about this. I think it's really important we don't want to miss that opportunity to move in that direction. But there is some resistance that happens and just reading, I think it was in leadership
[00:09:36] on the line, high fits and Lensky if you remember that book from the early 2000s. They were talking about, I came into a newspaper that was all print media, tight packed every square inch had written words in it and then he was more of a design in my
[00:09:52] did person and said, is this visually pleasing to the reader? And the writers are like, who cares if it's visually pleasing to the readers? The purpose is to communicate this news and pack as much end.
[00:10:02] So there was this adaptive shift that had to happen to bring something of white space and design and images alongside really great content and reporting. And so what you're not saying is, short circuit, you're preaching and do less quality
[00:10:20] sermons, you're saying bring another element that makes it even better enhances it for people to remember. 100% right, great theology and a great theological process do not guarantee an effective sermon. Fortunately, some of the most beautifully theologically constructed sermons can be like
[00:10:38] listening to a white noise machine and put you right to sleep. So it's not just that theology you've got to land it. How do you land the timeless truth of Jesus in people's lives?
[00:10:48] So, you know, I think the task of preaching is to define the question we're trying to answer. Why should people care about this? What's the question that this passage is going to address? How's the gospel going to illuminate it?
[00:11:06] And then how does it end with the questions so what do I do about it? How do I apply it to my life? So again, if we only optimize the sermon to engage auditory learners, that's only 35% of people at best. So how do we do that?
[00:11:21] How do we get their attention and aim for retention? So here's some things that have worked in our context. I'm going to really talk a lot about my process and what I do and Jesse is going to chime
[00:11:33] in because he does some things in the same lane but he's got a little bit different process and I think that's good to hear because your process is probably going to look like your process.
[00:11:43] I just want to give you some ideas that may help you as you think about how can I make the sermon more engaging visually? Okay, and these are sort of fun titles here because I was, maybe I was bored but
[00:11:59] I was going to say what are some things that have worked. Number one, I started listening to Mick Jagger. I'm on my side or at least it should be. Yeah. And I know we've hit on this before that the truth is if you're going to be creative
[00:12:14] or doing something a little bit out of the lane, you're usually in, you need time. You need time for the scripture to marinade for ideas to bubble up. This means if you're waiting till Saturday night or Sunday morning to think about this,
[00:12:29] it's really, you just makes it so much harder. And maybe you are a Saturday night special preacher or even Sunday morning preacher. Listen if that works for you, that works for you. But if you want to do this visual stuff, especially if you have somebody else who's helping
[00:12:44] you make the slides, it's just going to take more time. And I know Jesse use a model that we've talked about a couple of times but I really like yours as a 631 model. Do you want to share a bit about what that is? I'm happy to do that.
[00:12:57] Really the purpose is to create more space for creativity and to forward to iterate and mature. And if somebody's out there, my dad was a bivocational guy. He worked a full-time job and he preached on the weekends in a small church. That's you.
[00:13:15] Thank you for doing what you're doing. And I'm sure what you're doing is, God's working through that. So for those of us though that are in a full-time position in a church, we really have no excuse not to be further out ahead in our preaching.
[00:13:30] In fact, if you're working in a full-time capacity and you're writing a Saturday night special sermon, I think probably we need to have a sideline conversation about what are you being a good steward of your time? I don't know.
[00:13:44] I don't want to judge you about that but I would ask that question of you. So for us the 631 model is really getting further out ahead in our planning so that we can have room for the Holy Spirit to move and work and for creativity to happen.
[00:13:58] So at 636 months out, Jason, you and I are thinking ahead on sermon series and on big picture topics, right? So not that those things can't change but 3-6 months out, we're thinking about the fall. What are we preaching on in the fall? Yeah.
[00:14:13] That kind of look like starting to break down a series but it's at 6 weeks out that we start to really get intentional. We call this the 631 model. I with our team here and we do this.
[00:14:23] So we look at the Sunday 6 weeks from now and we say what's the sermon? What's the topic, what's the passage, what's the theme? What are some ideas that we've had about it already?
[00:14:32] Is there any notes we want to jot down just a initial kind of gut level stuff or maybe an idea for something creative we want to do. And then we look at the 3 weeks out Sunday.
[00:14:43] So we looked at 6 weeks and now we look at 3 weeks and say okay this is 3 weeks away. What are we doing, what else has come to mind since the last time we looked at this? And that's the week that I do my sermon prep Bible study.
[00:14:57] The 3 weeks out sermon we look at together in a Bible study with folks and we talk about what they think it might mean and all that. So it 3 weeks out, it's starting to take some shape and other creative elements and ideas
[00:15:09] and stories and illustrations can kind of come along. And then the week of the 1 week out we check in again and that's where I write the sermon that week. But I've already thought about it two other times, even just for 5 or 10 minutes and if
[00:15:23] you do 6-3-1 every week you're going to hit on every Sunday at least 3 times. And so you've had chance for those ideas to mature and marinate. And I love coming into a week knowing already a general idea of the direction of the
[00:15:38] sermon, knowing the passage I'm going to preach on and kind of the key theme or as you put the question that's being asked and resolved and the application. So anyway, 6-3-1 there's a lot of variations you can probably Google it and find a way to do it.
[00:15:52] But that's time on your site, the more you sit with the better the quality is going to be in the end. Yeah, and it also gives you time to spiritually check the pulse of the congregation to sort of assess, prayerfully assess. Where's the congregation right now?
[00:16:09] What are some of the pain points that I'm perceiving and how can we bring the God Spill to bear on those pain points? And that's just something that takes a little spiritual marinating. It just takes some time. And it takes a listening, right?
[00:16:24] So if you know that you're trying to bring out a new staff person or we're going to go to another service or we're going to change something in the life of the church where you can start thinking in terms of preaching as an opportunity to bring people along
[00:16:36] them at journey. But it takes time to listen and to hear and discover how this particular sermon is going to fit with some of that. I think it is just giving yourself more space. It's going to start to feel the pressure relieved in the weekly sermon writing process
[00:16:53] because you're going to be further ahead on it. And as we've said on here before, sermons are like, old telephone poles on an old highway, they just keep on coming, right? Keep on coming, keep on coming.
[00:17:03] So the further we can work ahead, even if it's just a spend five minutes on a Sunday a couple of times before we get to that week, it's going to really help us. All right, number two, I started thinking of my sermon like storyboarding a movie. Yeah.
[00:17:20] So when I first came out of seminary, I like just about every other pastor that I know, especially press Patirians is I would write a manuscript and actually at first I was doing the thing we did in seminary where you write in like an exegetical paper
[00:17:33] and then a manuscript like I don't know. I didn't know. It was very Jason thing to do. Yeah. And in my my actual sort of transformation of preaching started back then in my first call and I'd be reading from my manuscripts and every time I tell a story,
[00:17:55] I would actually because the pulpit was like up high and kind of weird like sort of back. So I would come down and tell the story like on the chansel when I was closer to the people.
[00:18:08] And I kept getting feedback like we really like it when you do that, you know. And it took me about six months to realize what they are really saying just do that. That's right. That's right. So, but that was the beginning.
[00:18:24] I do think that was the beginning of kind of learning to preach visually. Yeah, a physical conversation, a little closer to the people was a lot different than feeling like I was behind the pulpit with the manuscript. Not saying manuscript preaching's bad.
[00:18:38] There's a lot of really good ones. I'm not, I'm not one of them. So how do I start thinking? I started thinking, how do we think about it like a movie, like a story like I'm story boarding where I'm thinking of flow and movement.
[00:18:53] And so here's what I do. I start with scripture. And I think, all right, how do I bring them on a journey through this? I, as I study the scripture a bunch of questions come up or possible ideas or topics or connecting points.
[00:19:09] And I think of stories, illustrations, modern day parables like from movies or TV shows or commercials or pop culture, whatever that might look like. I think of the again, the pain points that people may be feeling and that takes really knowing your congregation.
[00:19:27] Pain points you as the pastor may be feeling. And then how do I bring gospel hope to those things? And so I start, if I think of it like just imagine you're looking at a power point on the grid view where you're seeing all of the slides.
[00:19:46] That's how I'm seeing the sermon. Imagine the scriptures in the middle and I'm thinking about how I, what are some connecting points or some introductions? What are some stories? And how do I want to land it? I think of it as a storyboard.
[00:20:02] And we'll talk about notes and manuscripts in just a minute, but that's really how it starts for me. I start storyboarding the sermon. Yeah, how much is that is just an image like a visual image like a picture? How much of that is text?
[00:20:15] I mean, obviously the scripture is going to be text. I would imagine, but is it, is it a hybrid of both if you have a key point? You want to make is it words and then sometimes it's an image of a mountain or something? How is that? Yeah.
[00:20:26] I'll often as I'm in brainstorming mode, I'll do placeholder text and images. So I won't care about how it looks and it'll just be a draft, but I'll just write a sentence or two that I know I want to hit. Yeah.
[00:20:39] And then I'll go back in the revision process and I'll find two of those things or move them around. That's the thing about storyboarding like that is that this happens every week. As I'm going through and I think of an illustration, I have it all dialed in.
[00:20:53] I'm like, you know what? Now that I'm looking at it, this would work better after the scripture. This would better after, you know, and so then I physically click on the box and move it.
[00:21:02] That's right because what can happen is your talent maybe a story at the start of the sermon that's a way into the text, right? An illustration. But you can you're actually like well, maybe I should say the end of that illustration
[00:21:13] for the end of the sermon as application because the story kind of preached the whole sermon. So you can then you're moving stuff around to really bring people on that journey with you to something of what does this mean for me?
[00:21:25] How am I going to live or you're going to inspire them to go out from there? And I know there's lots of different kind of models. One that you and I've both used over the years comes out of the North Point world, but it's
[00:21:36] the IU God we inspire model. And you kind of think in these broad like how do you bring people into this into this scripture through how it relates to their real lives or the things are going through? What does God have to say about it?
[00:21:49] What does that mean for us? Now what do we inspire to go and do? Thinking about that, but I like the idea of store-bored storyboarding because it gives you a sense of how it's all going to fit together what may be needed.
[00:22:02] And it's adding to where do you maybe over-explaining and you can dial it back? And you start to get into a rhythm of all of that as you take it in. I think it's worth it. Yes. And this is just kind of dev tails into the next one.
[00:22:14] So I just started, I left the manuscript writing. And I start with, I write the sermon in the presentation software. Because remember the whole point is this presentation is now the sermon companion. So I'm really sharing the sermon visually as well as for the ear.
[00:22:33] So it's a combination of things and people are like, well what do you put on the sides? It's not just sort of for me anyway. It's not just putting up a picture of like a painting that I want to riff on. Yeah.
[00:22:44] It's, I've got almost a slide for every thought. And sometimes those thoughts are bullet point lists with an image. Sometimes there's no images just to take away braze that I want to use or it's obviously scripture. But really the presentation is a companion the whole way through.
[00:23:08] And we could talk about this at the end. But you know, then the question is well who clicks through it? And for the longest time I would have somebody else do it for me. And they were, and they were looking at like a Q sheet.
[00:23:26] Like when I say these words, you click to the next slide. Yeah. We found a much better way now that we have the Andy Stanley TV. Right? We've had that for almost five years now. Yeah.
[00:23:38] But um, and the Q is every time I point at it, they advance the slide. So I don't have to think about some pastors like to do it themselves. And that's totally fine if that's you.
[00:23:48] I just didn't want to have to think about it or fuss with it myself. Yeah. And if you're not on a TV screen like you have your setups awesome. If you ever go to towerhill.org and watch a one of Jason's messages,
[00:24:00] you'll see what he means by the Andy Stanley TV. We don't have one. We have just screens behind me, but all turn and kind of jester to the screen. Because it's like especially if I've said the phrase a couple times of my next point and they
[00:24:14] have to come do it. Yeah. Alright, let's keep going. But um, but I think that's it. So when you're preaching the slides, and I don't know how much content you have Jason. How long is a typical sermon for you? 25? 20? I mean, it's 20? Minutes? Yeah.
[00:24:31] 25, 25, the 30 is why I'm in. Yeah. So I'm usually in the 28 to 33 and believe me, people will tell me if I'm over that. They'll let me know. I'm way closer to 30. I'll be honest. Yeah. But how many slides is it? Do you think on an average?
[00:24:47] It's probably an average of 45 to 50 slides. Then for me, I and our AV guy goes, I noticed he had 57 slides. I know it out tell me. I'm going to be here. I'm going to be. And so you start to build an identity as a communicator alongside your team.
[00:25:04] And I know you guys have awesome people and so do we. And so you're partnering together with your team. There's an inner, there's an, it's kind of a way to engage with each other.
[00:25:13] And so the guy, your guy up there, or your whoever, the young lady that's running the slides, clicking through along with you, tracking with you. And I noticed that I am best when I have 30 seconds to a minute of content around each slide.
[00:25:28] That's not 100% the case, but roughly because what that does then is now the content and being married to the slide means you just have to remember the content that goes with that. And believe me, all of us can do that.
[00:25:42] You might not, you're like, I can't memorize a manuscript. What are you talking about Jason? Well, you can have some notes that you're looking at. But I'll guess that if you write your sermon and you do the work,
[00:25:52] you're going to be able to speak intelligently the 30 seconds to a minute around each of your slides without notes. Absolutely. And it's so much more, it may not be, here's what you lose. You lose that, you lose some of that precision of language.
[00:26:09] Polish, Polish, a accomplish in writing. But remember, the sermonist for is for the ear, not for reading, right? And when there's a point that I really want to make sure I say it just the right way because
[00:26:23] it's important and it's theological and I don't want to mess it up, I will put that on the screen because God, it's not important for me to say it right.
[00:26:32] Whereas if it's something a story I'm telling, I don't need it to be exactly the way I wrote it. So I know you write your content to the slides and so you're marrying your notes to each slide.
[00:26:44] The way that I've done mine is I actually still write a manuscript because Cleophas Larusad that I should. So I was, this is called the different thing. It was just skipping to, and I was at West Coast Evangelical in his mind when I was a seminary
[00:26:58] and I wrote three points on a couple stories and I didn't do all the background work that people like Jason hurt so good at and all that. And so I was coming in sometimes with a sermon that was not fully baked
[00:27:10] in the sense that I hadn't thought through every thought. And so I still to this day, I write my manuscript word for word exactly to the slides. I'm following my outline. I do it very much like you do.
[00:27:22] I create my slides first and then I write to that. But I write the whole thing word for word as I would want to say it. And then on Sunday morning my manuscript is in a notebook somewhere.
[00:27:34] It's not, I don't take it up there with me to preach from because I've done the work to work all the way through all the content, to get clear on it in my own hand and heart.
[00:27:43] And now I can just speak it freely to those that are listening. So that's my process. I'm not saying everybody has to do one or the other. But if you're a manuscript writer and that's how you get really clear on the message,
[00:27:55] you know, you can still do that work. And then be free from it on a Sunday. If you're going this slide, Rob. Yeah. And what we do so we have a traditional worship experience as well. It that does not utilize the slides.
[00:28:10] So what I do is I go back from my PowerPoint version. Let's say I use Pro presenter but same idea. And then I'll go back and write notes based on that. And what the writing of the notes does is that gets that in my brain even more.
[00:28:26] So again, it's adaptive to whatever works for you. But I do think thinking about it, it's really helped me think about the flow of a message with a beginning, middle and ends that takes people on a journey that they're engaged in. It really really helps. Yeah.
[00:28:42] And and something you'll get better at as you do it. Yeah, but I think if you're willing to risk it, I remember the first time I left my manuscript closed in here. I was like, what am I doing? This is good.
[00:28:56] But then I got more and more comfortable. And now it is, I mean, some way more dynamic way to engage with people and in all that. Yeah. So if you want an example of this, you could certainly watch our churches online
[00:29:10] or if you go to reclaimedleader.com forward slash sermons, there's a sermon series that we recently did on spiritual formation. And you could download for free the slides. So you can see exactly what I do in that sermon series.
[00:29:28] And also you are free to use that whole sermon series if you want to use it. And you don't even have to give me credit. So yeah. So if you go again, reclaimedleader.com forward slash sermons and you could download that for free
[00:29:40] and give you an idea of how I do it. And then next, remember it's not just slides on a screen. I also, I do this more sparingly, but when it makes sense, I started leaning into physical demonstrations.
[00:29:57] So you know, I've seen some people do it where they get dressed up and they're in character and it's like narrative preaching. You know, they come out as the apostle Paul or Peter or something cool like that. And I never had the guts for that.
[00:30:10] But it's a lot of momentum. Yeah. It is. It is. But people remember that stuff. Yeah. We do. So strategic use of props or demonstrations to explain a Bible story or theological point. One of my favorite ones that really worked was I used red ribbon to
[00:30:28] to talk about the kingdom of God. I tied the red ribbon to a small tabletop cross and I put it on the community table. And then I took the red ribbon and I, and I sent it out at an angle so that it reached the back
[00:30:41] corners of the sanctuary. And I talked about how the kingdom of God was growing and there's everything outside the kingdom of God. But one day that angle is going to come to a complete fullness and all that will be left
[00:30:53] is the kingdom of God. And people still tell me, I did that like in 2015, people still tell me about that sermon. So they it's another way to preach visually. They remember it. They remember it.
[00:31:05] Yeah. And then they say, and how come we don't do anything creative like part anymore? Because I'm out of juice, man. I'm not on my head. No, he's standing. Yeah. He just did one last summer called Paper Walls.
[00:31:17] And I only, I don't even know why I checked in. I actually don't check in with them a ton. But I checked in and I saw him doing that sermon series. And he, he had what looked like a brick wall
[00:31:27] on stage. And he was making this point of like the obstacles in front of us aren't really what we think. And he poked his finger through it and it was paper. And that was, I remember that from a year ago. That was really powerful.
[00:31:38] And we do this with children's sermons or children's message all the time. So why not consider it for older generations? He's don't do it just to do it. That's not the point. Like do it. There's something that really is impactful. And because if you do it every Sunday,
[00:31:53] you're going to run out of the creative juice for it. It just will happen. Unless you're just hiring for the people. Yeah, I never did kind of, okay, what's it going to happen today? But those things really stand out.
[00:32:04] I can think of a few that we've done over the years here too where it's like, wow, that people remember that. They don't even necessarily remember the words that I said along with it sometimes. But the illustration that demonstrated that when a part of God's story stands out.
[00:32:17] And one that we did not too on goes the art of neighboring. If you read that book, it was great book. But we were talking about, what does it mean to be a good neighbor and to love your neighbor and to be in danger through
[00:32:30] neighbors? And so every Sunday we had a Lego version of the neighborhood trolley come out with the scripture and it lit up those little back of it. And then to the Mr. Rogers neighbor,
[00:32:41] James, I would do put on a little sweater and then throw the shoe from one, you know, to the your other hand and put it on. And people are like, I remember the neighbor series.
[00:32:51] And I remember that every time everybody preached, you guys did the little shoe thing. And those things are they stand out. So do them when they make sense. It's another way
[00:33:01] to just again utilize all the senses and engage people and help them remember and take that with them. So it's fun. That's that's a fun thing to get to do. But it's also a really useful tool when we
[00:33:14] engage more than just people's ears. Yeah. Well, I want to we're going to bring this episode to a close real soon. But I just want to just go, just real rapid fire through some best practices
[00:33:25] because I think this can be really helpful. We'll throw these on our show notes. So if you ever got to reclaim the year dot com for it's last show notes, you'll find them there when this episode
[00:33:32] comes out. But number one, I would say images make sure they are HD or 1920 by 1080 or if your projector doesn't do that, make him at least 12 90 by 720, which is the YouTube thumbnail size.
[00:33:47] Because if you take a image smaller than that, blow it up, it gets grainy. So you don't want that. It looks really bad. You want to choose images that are copyright safe. I use a canvapro
[00:34:00] subscription. It's not that much money. The images are great. It's easy to use. But you can also find free software. There's a free version of camera. There's unsplash and some other ones that
[00:34:09] I know people like to use. And that will all work fine. Just so I make sure they're copyright safe. Especially if you're going to be streaming your services, you want to make sure you're using
[00:34:19] copyright safe material. We talked about this. I shoot for 50 slides. I know if I go over 50, we're getting long. And if I go under 50, we're getting short. So this includes scripture
[00:34:32] slides. So this is all in the number of slides. Also, there is such a thing as death by PowerPoint. Make sure that it's not too much text. You use bigger images and less text. The text itself,
[00:34:49] if you're using Pro presenter, should be a 90 font or if you're using PowerPoint, that the equivalence about 46 font. So you put a big brush. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny. We didn't even talk about that.
[00:35:03] But both of us have the same. We know it's trial and error, right? Yeah. Yeah. We use Pro presenter because if it's multi screen capability, it allows me on a confidence monitor, which that's another thing.
[00:35:16] Having a confidence monitor will help. But it allows me to see a split screen of the current slide and the next slide. That's why I say where I'm going. Yeah, if you're going to move to a slide-based
[00:35:30] presentation model and move away from notes or manuscript, the split screen is as a must. I mean, because then it's the way that you can transition naturally into what's next and you're not
[00:35:42] fishing for it or guessing at it. And so that split screen, I don't know where yours is Jason, mind's in the back of the sanctuary on a large, probably 65 inch screen in the back. And I can see
[00:35:54] the current slide and the next slide. And so can my AV take so we're all on the same page? That's the best place to put it for us. We couldn't make that work. So we actually have them
[00:36:04] on the floor. I don't love it because you need out of the corner of your eye or have you? Yeah. Yeah. Because if I stare at it, it really shows up on camera. So I don't love that as much as
[00:36:14] I love, I like it on the back of my eye. And if you get in the back or out in front of you, somehow even if you're on a stage and you can put it further out ahead of you. And then
[00:36:23] you're, it has the effect of taking your eyes to the audience and all that. Yeah. And you know, churches like North Point, they have a center camera and a confidence monitor right below the
[00:36:33] camera lens. So you're looking right at the camera. Yeah. And then I would just say this is a little hack that I just used for this current sermon series coming up. If you come across some
[00:36:44] sermon art that another church did that you love, reach out to them and see if you can use it. So I just reached out to a church in England. Yeah. This really great art for their life of David
[00:36:55] sermon series, which we're about to do. And I just email them just like, hey, I love the art you did for this series. Can we, can we use it for ours? And they wrote back absolutely,
[00:37:06] so glad you're able to use it. Right. So churches, so they'll say yes. I've never heard someone saying no. It's sometimes I don't get the response. In fact, we sprout half the time you just get
[00:37:16] crickets, right? But if you Google, you can Google search a series on, say you want to preach on Ephesians or whatever, if Ephesian series sermon series ideas and a whole bunch of images that
[00:37:26] some awesome church with graphic design people came up with a slide or a series of slides for that sermon series. And they churches love sharing, at least the ones that I've engaged with. They
[00:37:36] want to be useful to the broader church. So reach out and probably you'll get it yes. And you might actually get some bonus material along with it. So do it. Yeah, I had a church send us their
[00:37:46] bumper video also when I did that a few months ago. So good stuff. All right, remember you could go to reclaimedleader.com for its last sermon to download the sermon series if that's what you want to
[00:37:58] do. Otherwise, again, check out our show notes. We'll put some of these best practices up there for this episode. Anything else, Jesse? Before I know that, that was a good topic to hit.
[00:38:07] I mean, you can riff on that topic for a bit. I think we could. Obviously, every just like, you guys seem a little more animated for this one. Well, it's when you're preaching every week,
[00:38:17] you're probably right there with us. And you're, you know, so we get a little fired up and so we should go on and on it like, but yeah, this is really good stuff, Jason. I think just good reminders
[00:38:28] and also if you're even thinking about this for while and how can I take an except for it in my to be effective and communicate the gospel well? Consider moving in this direction, even baby stepping with maybe starting with a few slides or starting with some visuals, demonstrations
[00:38:45] and going from there. But I love it. Good stuff, Jason. All right, everyone. Hey, thanks for listening. I hope this is helpful. Again, that's the whole point. We just want to help you be as effective as
[00:38:56] you can be in your churches and listen, share with us the stuff that's working for you because we are constantly learning new things. And I think that's really what makes a pastor healthy and effective is
[00:39:10] I guess we all need a certain amount of humility to be like, we don't have it all figured out and maybe somebody has something figured out and please tell me because now because I really want to
[00:39:19] figure it out. So anyway, I hope it's helpful to all of you and as we always say, ministry is hard. He does so much better when we do it together.