[00:00:00] I'm always trying to balance my summer break, if you will, or rest. I mean, you never really get a break, but there are some things we do different. Like, we don't have our, you know, in the Presbyterian world, our leadership is called the session. We have elders. So in our session, we purposely, we don't meet in July. We sort of take July off from meetings, even our staff meetings and stuff. We dial way, way back. And, but at the same time, summer is this really great opportunity to be thinking about strategy for September.
[00:00:29] Welcome to episode 446. Are you heading into the summer on fumes? What if I told you that you can get real rest and you can have a detailed strategic ministry plan by Labor Day weekend? I know it sounds too good to be true, but it's not as hard as you think. With just a little planning, you can do both. Rest and forward ministry movement this summer. That's today on The Reclaimed Leader. Welcome to The Reclaimed Leader Podcast. I'm Jason Tucker.
[00:00:56] And I'm Jesse Skiffington. We're two pastors in the trenches who are passionate about church health for greater gospel impact. We share the ups and downs of ministry, strategies that work for us, and some that didn't. Best practices and practical tools for church leadership. The goal? To help all of our churches flourish. Let's get started. Hey everyone, welcome back to The Reclaimed Leader Podcast. It is so good to be here with you again.
[00:01:25] The birds are chirping. Jesse, the sun is out. Played a little golf a couple days ago. I mean, listen, it's rolling out here. We're drifting into summer. We're on the other side of Memorial Day weekend, which for us was just a complete washout. Everybody was so depressed. And now, here we go. We just had a sunny weekend. We're moving forward. So, great to be here talking ministry and leadership with you, Jesse.
[00:01:51] And welcome everyone who's listening, who's been joining with us, all you new listeners out there. Thank you so much for hanging with us and being a part of things. And all you listeners that have been with us for years, years, episode 446. Thank you so much for just your friendship and your support and our mutual encouragement over that time. And you're long-suffering. And you're long-suffering through a lot of words. But how are you doing, Jesse?
[00:02:17] I'm good, man. Just, yeah, same. Kind of turned the page on Memorial Day. And summer is a little later arriving out here in the Northwest. So, we've got, you know, it's been nice. So, we had Baptism Sunday this last weekend. And our church is called Marine View Presbyterian Church. So, we literally look out over the water and we have a beach just down below the church. And so, we did some baptisms down there this Sunday. And beautiful day, 71. Somebody said they saw orcas in the distance.
[00:02:47] And there's, you know, eagles flying overhead. It's a little urgency to the baptism. Yeah, you got to go a little quicker when there's a killer whale stocking you out in the, you know. So, anyway. They weren't in wetsuits, right? I mean, it's cold. It's cold. The water is cold. You just press the progression of the seals, put them out in the ocean. That's a great idea. Yeah, they live out here. They know what they're getting into. Trying to settle rising income. They're not going to forget it. They're not going to forget it. Let's put it that way.
[00:03:14] We did have, we have a gentleman who's 93 who wants to be baptized. And I said, you might want to check with your medical provider before we do this. So, we can't wait. It's going to be so much fun to baptize him. But we might find an alternative to the Puget Sound at 48 degrees. So, we'll see. Listen, Presbyterians do sprinkle occasionally. I don't know if you do that. We do, we do, and we do. And so, we may do that. That's awesome.
[00:03:43] So, the reason I had mentioned golf in the beginning is so I went out. And for anyone who doesn't know, I am not good. But I really enjoy it. So, I went out. And since I was kind of single, they always pair you up to try to create a group of four. So, I'm often with just a lot of people I don't know. And there was this two guys, two younger guys than me. You know, it's amazing how young people seem now. Compared to my age. Anyway. So, these guys were good. Really good golfers.
[00:04:13] And the one guy on this one hole, he made a hole-in-one. Wow. I had never seen anybody. Yeah. Getting a hole-in-one. And to see the excitement on this guy's face, he was like Mr. Tough Guy Golfer. He never cracked a smile. And he gets this, and he is like a little kid. Yeah, I bet. Running around, freaking out. It was so cool. I was so happy for him. I'm like, I told him, I said, I don't even know you. And I got goosebumps. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, you can be an amazing golfer and go your whole life and never get a hole-in-one, right? So, it's a pretty unusual thing.
[00:04:42] It was a neat moment, man. I was glad I got to be a part of it. And just think about all the God's blessings that, you know, we get to enjoy. That don't have anything to do with church, but have everything to do with, you know, enjoying this life that we have. I just, I don't know. It was cool. It was a cool moment. Nice, nice. Now, if you had hit the hole-in-one as an obviously not as good golfer, and he had never done that before, I don't know. It might have been. It might have ruined his, he might have hate golf forever, you know. He would be like, I quit. This is dumb.
[00:05:14] So, as we're talking about this, hopefully everyone, you know, you're starting to think about summer. We are now into June, if you're listening in real time. And I know pastors have different strategies over the summer. I think the number one strategy that I always have is something like, I need to go crash. I don't know where or how, but I just need to go nap and relax. Maybe watch baseball or something on TV. Like, I need to find some time to just chill.
[00:05:43] Because, man, this pace of ministry is, it's like we know it's unsustainable, but we sustain it anyway. Yeah. And by the time summer hits, it's like, oh my gosh, I just need a time out here. I don't know. Is that how you feel going into summer or is it a little different rhythm for you? Yeah, I think yes and no. It depends on the year a little bit and how much we try to pack in.
[00:06:05] But I think one of the things you and I have talked a lot about is trying to cultivate a rhythm of work and rest, you know, in a regular, ongoing kind of way. But I think, yeah, I think there's kind of a couple things when I think about summer and rest. One is like when we really need like a deep rest. Like I need a break and I need, you know, sabbatical or I need to take significant time away to just do that deep recharge.
[00:06:28] And then there's like, I just need this season just to have a little less on my plate to do some things that, you know, outside, go hit some golf balls, go be with my family. Just that kind of rest to me is really rejuvenating and energizing. And so that's kind of how I look at my summer. I just want to maybe pull back a little bit and just kind of enjoy and just get to be. So, you know, I don't know. Does that resonate with kind of where you're at?
[00:06:55] Yeah, I think that's so important to do, but I'm always balancing it with this. And this is where we're kind of going to land on this episode here. But I'm always trying to balance my summer break, if you will, or rest. I mean, you never really get a break, but there are some things we do different. Like we don't have our, you know, in the Presbyterian world, our leadership is called the session. We have elders. So in our session, we purposely, we don't meet in July. We sort of take July off from meetings. Even our staff meetings and stuff, we dial way, way back. Yeah.
[00:07:23] And, but at the same time, summer is this really great opportunity to be thinking about strategy for September. Yeah. And I'm always kind of trying to, or let me say this. I figured it out now for myself, but it took me a long time to figure it out. How do I navigate that balance? Because I don't want to ignore strategic thinking.
[00:07:48] And honestly, and we've talked about this a lot, but the act of strategic thinking is rejuvenating. Yeah. So it's weird. I sort of get rest in the movement, in the forward movement of strategic thinking. It's restorative rest. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it kind of fills the batteries back up. And I've noticed that if I'm far enough away from the thing that I'm being strategic about, and I can have lots of room then for creativity and it, and this, and it's not a taskless yes, yet.
[00:08:17] And it's just sort of like the freedom to think and dream that's re-energizing or restorative for me. It's when you turn that into like a tedious little list that now you're grinding it out, you know? So, so I think that distinction a little bit for me, but you said something in there that stood out to me and we do too. We dial back the meetings. We do a little less sort of organizational sort of work during the summer months, particularly in July.
[00:08:45] And so that actually, because I'm not preparing for those meetings and I'm not spending time in those meetings, there is this room for strategic planning and just kind of dreaming and that yellow notepad that we talk about going and sitting somewhere and just kind of, what do we want to be working on? What should the fall look like? And where does the, where's the Lord leading us? And that kind of stuff is, I think is positive to kind of fill in behind those normal checklists that we have that get set aside a little bit.
[00:09:13] We can backfill with some creativity and strategic thinking. Yeah. So how do we do that? You know, it takes so much energy to think about planning and church vision and all that stuff. But what if you can make it easier? And I think you can. And I think it's all about how do you map out a reasonable, not crush yourself doable plan that doesn't sacrifice, but rather optimizes your rest at the same time. Yeah. So you can have your cake and eat it too, Jesse.
[00:09:42] No, but, and again, we've, there's not much we haven't talked about since 2017 when we started this podcast. But we talk a lot about calendaring. And I think this is where calendaring a reminder about that this summer, understanding there are some things on your calendar that are already filled. That's okay. Okay. But I think if you're managing your time and your energy intentionally, then you're going
[00:10:11] to create space. You're going to create margin. That's going to bring rest. And you're not going to have to worry about when we're going to address strategic thinking. It's going to be on the calendar. So what I want to kind of share is how do we do that? How do we maximize rest? And then what would it look like if we just had two leadership meetings a month in the three minute, two in June, two in July, two in August to get us ready for the fall. And I'm not talking about long meetings.
[00:10:38] I'm talking about like an hour long meeting twice a month and to optimize the rest of your time kind of around your summer schedule. I think that could be really awesome. And I think that folks can really get some forward movement. And this is something, just a strategy that always helps me in the summertime. So let's get to it. Let's get to, I think you got to start with your time. So the way that I do it and I'll show you again. I mean, so my calendar is color coded.
[00:11:07] I'm an analog guy. I need to kind of touch the calendar and turn the page and all of that. And I have different colors that mean sort of different things. And it helps me organize my time in such a way that I pre-decide how I'm going to spend my time. That's right. Yeah. And yes, life happens and some pre-decisions have to get changed. But at least I know what needs to change and get sacrificed if I'm going to say yes to something else.
[00:11:33] So I would encourage pastors, if you go grab yourself a planner or however you like to do your planning, start with plan. If you got any vacations that you know you're going to take, just make sure those are on the calendar. And then here's what I'm going to suggest if you don't know where to start. Try this. And you can adjust this as you need to. What if you start with, I want three days where I'm going to rest and recharge or have fun.
[00:12:02] Three days out of my week. And you could fill that with anything that helps you rest, recharge, and have fun. Pick those three days and mark them off. Block them off in your calendar. Now, let's say you are into golf or you're into fishing or you do some sort of outdoor sport and it's a terrible weather day. Well, you know, swap it out when that time comes. But ahead of time, decide, I'm going to prioritize my rest because I really need it right now.
[00:12:31] I really need it in this season. Okay, then one day of personal study, one day of strategic thinking, and then one Sunday because we know you're working on Sunday most of the time. And then one flex day. It could be whatever you need it to be that week. What if you just started, and maybe you don't have to do the whole summer at once, but you just started with the rest of June. How can I schedule?
[00:13:01] And so what you've just done is you've carved out time according to what your felt needs are. You feel like you need rest. You need some restoration, some fun, some joy, some relaxation. Okay, make three out of your seven days about that. Mm-hmm. Right? And then also make sure you're still kind of feeding your mind, feeding your heart, personal study, strategic thinking, your Sunday, your flex day, whatever that looks like.
[00:13:30] And maybe is what this does for me is then I look at my calendar and I'm like, oh my, instead of being, oh my gosh, when am I going to have time to write this sermon? I got all these other things. I want to do this. Like, oh, no, no, no. I know exactly when. Yeah. I'm going to do it Thursday between this time and this time. It's already pre-decided. Yeah. And you know what it does? It helps me to breathe and not worry about it. Yeah. It's some peace of mind when you get it down on paper ahead of time and you go, okay, there's a spot for that.
[00:13:56] I mean, you know, and the same thing as you're kind of going through all the tasks and things that you have. If you have them down somewhere and you've created a moment or time for that, now you can mentally check it off in your, you don't have to carry it around in your head because you go, I know I'm going to have an opportunity to work on that. And I think the other piece I would add to that, and maybe you're going to get to this too, is when you do this kind of schedule shift for the summer, tell people about it.
[00:14:23] Because everybody else is going to work around that. And I find sometimes when I'm going to take like a third day in a week off, just kind of a personal day or whatever, and maybe it's a kid's thing or I just need that day. If I don't tell people about it and I start to feel a little guilty maybe or people unintentionally schedule things or are counting on me to be there.
[00:14:48] So by saying it out loud to your staff team, particularly, it kind of solidifies it in your own head and heart and everybody else is aware too. And they're going to protect that for you. And I have yet at least out loud, nobody's done this, where everybody's like, I can't believe you're going to be taking that. Like people are glad about it. They're like, oh, that's good. You're taking some time to rest. And you can even add that to your automatic away message on your email. You could say something like during these summer months in an attempt to just get a little extra rest.
[00:15:16] So I'm not checking my email from Friday to Monday or whatever that looks like for you. And just let people know. Yeah. And people, I mean, reasonable people are often glad about that. Right. And they're like, I'm so glad that my pastor, my church leader is getting some rest here. So show your color coded calendar again. I think that's pretty cool. So yeah. My summer one's not totally done, but I do. I do. Is that like colored pencils that you're using? Colored pencil. Yep. Yeah.
[00:15:46] Look at you. Because this way it doesn't bleed through the pages. I love it. I love it. So I've got, I do quadrants and a couple of different colored sheets of paper. So it's how I do mine. So I kind of have my key areas of responsibility broken down. And then I have my calendar that runs alongside that and some things. So what you want to do, I think kind of depends on how you're wired too. I'm not very good at digital everything. I need an analog kind of outlet.
[00:16:15] And partly that's me just processing as I'm writing out those task lists or that schedule and kind of pencil and stuff in. It just helps me somehow visualize it and see it and kind of get my head wrapped around it. So what I hear you saying though, is you got to have a plan for this. If you're not doing this, some version of this, that's where you're going to find yourself just in that grind and without sort of reprieve. And so anyway, it's a constant stressor if you're not planning ahead.
[00:16:43] So, um, and then the other thing I'll say is you may feel like you have too many, especially if you're a solo pastor, you feel like I can't, my church can't keep doing all the administrative things if I'm not helping to do that. And I just want to encourage you, pastor, you got to get some of that off your plate, at least for a season. And one way you do that, and I did this years ago, actually 10 years ago was when, uh, I
[00:17:10] hired a college kid to start doing some of my scheduling on my calendar for me so that I could, didn't have to respond instantly to every time somebody requested me and it was super cheap and she did not care. She's like, I'm in college. It's extra money. It was something like 50 bucks a month or something. I mean, it was like nothing. But she was like glad to do it because it only took her like a few minutes and it was an extra, just some extra money.
[00:17:37] You can find college kids who are so much better at the computer than we are who can navigate this super easily and would be happy to help. So I think there's a lot of different things you could do to try to get some of these tasks that you don't act frankly have to do. A lot of people could do them. So let's make sure, let's see if we can get some of those off your plate to begin with. That's just an easy, kind of an easy, low cost way of doing that. Yeah. I love it. Lots of different strategies.
[00:18:06] I'm sure there's some of our listeners that are like, you guys, really? This is how you're doing that? Like you probably have some cool apps or different stuff you use. So keep up the good word. Yeah. You got your hands around this thing. Awesome. And then secondly, remember, it's not just about planning your time. It's about planning your energy. Yeah. So think about the rhythms of your day. When is it, Jesse, that you feel like you are at your peak performance-wise mentally?
[00:18:36] Yeah. That's first thing for me. So I get to the office. I tend to get in here about 7 a.m. before everybody else. Yeah. In an ideal day. Not always, but sometimes it's 7.30. But then I have about an hour, an hour and a half before anybody else is here. But that's really my best thinking for, you know, sermon writing content. Sometimes it's responding to a sensitive email or something like that. But that's where my mind is best and clearest and I think most creative as well. Yeah.
[00:19:05] I'm in the same exact boat. And the funny thing is, my kids always ask, Dad, how come you're like up early in the morning? And I go, guys, until you were born, I was not like this. I was a nighter, man. That's right. And then you guys came along. I became a morning person. So thanks, kids.
[00:19:23] No, but so for me then, I make sure that I'm tackling the most mission-critical tasks that require my best thinking during my best energy. Now, that sounds like a no-brainer, but it's not. Because for years, I would come in. The first thing I'd do is I'd look at the email inbox and just try to bang out as many emails as I could. Totally. And I was just using my best creative energy on, you know, just cranking out emails.
[00:19:52] So I had to learn, no, no, no, that can wait. What are the things that are going to move the needle? What are the things that you really need to be paying attention to that really only you can do? Yeah. Give it your best time. Oh, man. And this is such a crucial thing, Jason. And easier said than done. I mean, even now, I'm sitting here, we're recording, and I glanced up, and I saw a new email hit my inbox for some of my presbytery leadership. And I don't know what it is. I can't see it. I just see a little one. Right.
[00:20:21] And I'm like, I wonder what that is. I wonder what problem I'm going to have to solve as soon as we're done. And so I think there's also, for me, I don't turn on my Outlook or my email. And in a sense, I mean, it's on my phone and it's there. But I really want to protect that time. Because if I don't, I will end up looking at it, and I will end up getting sucked into email. So that's tough. And yet you're absolutely right.
[00:20:45] If we spend our best thinking on 10 email responses that we could have waited till this afternoon, man, are we really doing our very best with our energy and our creativity? Probably the answer is no. And we all know that. So finding a way to protect that time and really be intentional. I think that's where it's still a work in progress for me, honestly. I think there's days when I do that well and then days where I get sucked into the rabbit hole of tasks.
[00:21:15] And so anyway. We're all in that boat, Jesse. And I think this is just, I'm always reminding myself of this, why this works so much better. That's right. And so again, like the purpose of this episode, up Periscope, where are we? Oh, yeah, that's right. I need to do, maybe think about things this way. So the last thing I want to do as far as strategic kind of progress goes is on your leadership day or on your strategic thinking day, here's a suggestion.
[00:21:41] And what I'm hoping is, isn't just that you'll be like, oh, I have to exactly do this, but this will spark your own ideas. You can do, it doesn't take a lot of time. So what if in June, July, and August, again, if you're listening in real time, but just adjust the dates accordingly whenever you get to this episode.
[00:22:01] If you had two strategic meetings with the people you needed in the room each month, about an hour each, you could do it consecutive weeks. That really doesn't matter. Well, let's say you had two meetings. You can get a ministry strategic plan for something that you want to do done by Labor Day. Yeah. There's no reason that you can't.
[00:22:26] And if you set aside that time ahead of time, you know, again, if you just say, okay, Tuesdays are going to be my day, I'm going to be strategic thinking. Then you know when you're going to do it. And it sort of takes the pressure off and it helps you be present to the work that's needed. But here's some ideas about what sort of meetings to have. And this follows the strategy of the process of my book, Speak in Their Language, which we've done episodes on that if you want to hear more about the overall process.
[00:22:56] But this is kind of a quick way. Let's say there's a ministry area that needs change, Jesse, that you know kind of, hey, people are kind of talking about. Leaders have been mentioning it. It's time to address it. What do we do? So, Jesse, meeting number one, get with your leadership, whatever that looks like, to you. And have a discussion. You know, in business, we call it a SWOT analysis. In church world, we call it SCOO. S-C-O-O.
[00:23:24] Strengths, challenges, obstacles, and opposition. Oh, no, excuse me. Opportunities. Strengths, challenges, obstacles, opportunities. Because nobody wants to say weaknesses or threats. I do. We use a SWOT, Jesse. What's our threat? But anyway, what's that area that needs change? Let's start having a discussion about it. So meeting number one, for one hour, we're going to get our leaders together. We're going to discuss the problem.
[00:23:54] Then the next meeting, let's say in that first month, happens to be June now. But okay, so that's the problem. Now, who is it exactly that we're trying to reach? What really is broken here? Who are we trying to reach? Do we have that defined? Or is it just sort of like, we hope people will show up? Because what happens is you start getting clarity around who you're trying to reach. Then a lot of other things start to get clear.
[00:24:22] In other words, if you're having a cornhole tournament at your church, like we are for our men's group on Saturday, you got to think, well, who is this for? Is this for the octogenarian women's circles? No. Okay, so, or yes. Well, then we should probably plan some things that would help them have a great time at this event. Right. So it matters. It matters who you're trying to reach.
[00:24:51] So identify that. Then month number two, meeting number one. Okay, why aren't we reaching them then? What's the gap? So we know the problem. We know who we're trying to reach. Why aren't we reaching them? What's the gap? Second meeting in July. Okay, what kind of church would we have to be that fills that gap? What would it look like? Then in August, invite more people in. Invite more of your congregation in. Say, hey, look, the last couple of months we've been looking at this.
[00:25:22] We've identified this is the problem. This is who we're trying to reach. This is why we're not reaching them. So help us brainstorm how to fill the gap. Yeah. And the more people you can get into that room, the better. So you want to, this is literally like a y'all come. Hey, congregation, I'm going to invite you to this town hall meeting. Want to talk about or, you know, call it whatever you want to get their input. Why? Because you want them to get buy-in so that they'll work with you on the solution. Mm-hmm. And you can't do that.
[00:25:49] You can't define the problem and who you're trying to reach and where the gap is with a group of 50 people. No, too many. You can brainstorm ideas and kind of get buy-in in a larger group setting once you kind of have a defined issue that you're trying to work on. So I think, yeah, I love it. And then in August, come up with, now you've had your large group brainstorm.
[00:26:14] Now you can, as a leadership, take that information and say, okay, these are the three to five key result areas that we think we need to work on. Or the three to five changes we need to make for this one ministry area. What are we going to try? Mm-hmm. And then when you get to the end of August, have your leadership say, okay, this is what we're going to try. This is what we're going to prioritize. This is the plan we're going to go with starting September 1 or whatever the date is. Mm-hmm.
[00:26:43] It really doesn't take that long. And you could do it by just focusing one day a week on strategic thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what you've done there, I mean, I think, you know, this goes without saying maybe, but you've created a strategic planning system over your summer months, right? So, and at minimal time investment, I think it's fantastic. So, you know, a lot of times the reason strategic planning doesn't happen is because we don't schedule it. We don't spend a focused time on it.
[00:27:13] And we're kind of not quite sure what to do when we do that. And as, you know, a lot of times when I talk about getting the yellow note sheet out, that's kind of for me. You know, that's me going, okay, Lord, what is it? And how are we? But getting kind of from an organizational level, some strategic thinking that begins a process that then looks like a real outcome at the end. Though that system is not a complex thing that you just described.
[00:27:39] But so often we just fail to implement those kinds of pieces because we're so busy running, running the mechanisms of the church. We forget kind of that higher level thinking. So I love it, Jason. I think summer is a great time for it, especially if you just gave us permission for a third day of rest in the summer. Why not? Who says you can't? Let's go for it. Let's do that.
[00:28:02] So one thing that I'm doing this summer is for a few churches, I mean, I don't have a ton of bandwidth to do a bunch of churches. But I am offering kind of a 90-day kickstart into this process that kind of guides you through it. So it's a little more plug and play. And I'm doing that at a discount because I just really want as many churches who I can take to afford it. I don't want affordability to be a problem.
[00:28:28] But if there's pastors out there, if you feel like you just want a little extra help to kickstart this thing, I am taking on churches right now. And so basically it's a virtual coaching package unless you live around the corner from me and I'll do it in person. But it's one 60- to 90-minute workshop on the whole 4D process from the book, next steps for your church, all of that, to get everyone on the same page with your leadership.
[00:28:55] Then two 60-minute follow-up meetings with your leaders, one each month. And then help making your detailed plan at the end for setting up your congregational action items. And you also get seven copies of the book, and then you can get additional copies at a discounted rate.
[00:29:17] But the idea is just kind of giving you everything you need so that you can get this thing going, which would even take less time on your end because you won't have to necessarily be leading all of those conversations. I would kind of step in and help you do that. So that's going on right now. Now, if any churches are interested, if you just go to our website, reclaimleader.com, and you go to the coaching button, it'll pop up. Yeah, the offer will pop up. So again, I'm going to do it.
[00:29:45] I'll take as many as I can if they're – I'm sorry ahead of time if you reach out and I have more than I feel like I can do well. Hey, Jay, that's what wait lists are for, man. Yeah, yeah. You have four or five slots and you can add a couple. I love it.
[00:30:00] I just think it's great to be hands-on and sometimes having someone like Jason come in from the outside and just get those fresh eyes on the situation or be another voice that as a pastor has your back and is encouraging that kind of strategic thinking. It's just helpful. So I love that you're doing this this summer, Jason, and helping churches continue to move forward. Let's go. Let's get to the fall with some vision and direction, I think. Yes. Man, that gets me fired up.
[00:30:29] Let's do it. I want churches – I want pastors to be fired up about the fall, not like, oh, my gosh, here we go again. I'm exhausted before I even start. We already kind of – and maybe I'm saying the same thing we've already said, but if you can get out ahead starting now, starting June, don't let it get backed up on you because you get to August and now you're thinking, I don't have a fall yet or we're a little thin on our fall. And it starts to not be rest at all, actually.
[00:30:58] So all you do is just kind of – goof off is probably not the right word. But if you just take June and July and you say, this is just for resting and I'm not going to do much strategic planning, it's actually going to cost you on the other end, I think. So spreading it out over the summer, spreading out your rest and your strategic planning, I think is a wise way to go. And, yeah, appreciate you kind of putting this out there for us. Yeah, and it's a great reminder to myself. So that's really how this works. Right.
[00:31:26] We listen back to these episodes to reminders of the things that we're supposed to be doing, right, that are life-giving and good and leadership. Well, hey, thanks, everyone, for listening. I hope that this summer you do – you get some rest and you get some progress. I'm excited, Jesse. We've got some guests coming up this month, which I'm excited about. We're going to have some really good discussions on young leaders and leadership in the church. So I'm really – I'm looking forward to that, looking forward to those conversations. And kind of anything else before we sign off here today?
[00:31:56] No, just, you know, yeah, let's go for it. I mean, I love it, Jason. I mean, church leadership is a crazy thing. But, you know, how did we get into this little lane where we're trying to figure out how do we stay healthy? How do we help our churches be healthy? How do we honor Jesus in the midst of all that? And more than anything, how do we have a kingdom impact that helps people know the love of God in their lives? And what a gift it is to be a part of that. And the reason we started this whole podcast in the beginning is because it's hard. It's hard work.
[00:32:27] It's not always the easiest thing. It's not pain-free. There's suffering that comes with it and all that. But hopefully just talking about it together can help us be healthier in our leadership and more resilient and able to lead well for the sake of the kingdom. So that's what we're after. That's what you're after. And, yeah, glad to be part of the conversation with you as always. All right, everyone. Thanks so much for listening. Ministry is hard. It is so much better when we do it together.