RL 330: A Great First Impression: Elevating the Guest Experience (with Greg Atkinson)

[00:00:00] What I have found is God blesses a teachable, humble spirit that says, you know what? I don't

[00:00:07] know everything. I've lost my new eyes. I need somebody to come in and see this from

[00:00:12] my outside perspective.

[00:00:15] Welcome to episode 330. Greg Atkinson has worked with churches all over the country and

[00:00:20] is an expert on first impressions. His book Secrets of a Secret Shopper, Reaching and

[00:00:25] Keeping Church, Yes, is one of the best. And today we're talking all about welcoming

[00:00:30] first time guests right here on The Reclaimed Leader.

[00:00:33] Hey everyone welcome to episode 330 of The Reclaimed Leader. I'm Jason Tucker back

[00:00:45] again with Jesse Skiffington as it go and Jesse.

[00:00:48] Doing great Jason. I'm just thinking about right now as we're recording this. What is

[00:00:52] the first impression people get from our podcast? The first thing they hear is your voice

[00:00:58] and then I say, I'm doing pretty good and then we talk for Mary. I don't know maybe

[00:01:01] we need to evaluate the first impression. I don't know. And you know of course we're

[00:01:06] talking today about first impressions in our church and how do we create a good experience

[00:01:10] for our guests when they show up and some in a way that makes them want to come back.

[00:01:15] And so after 330 episodes now, do we need some fresh eyes? Do we need a secret shopper

[00:01:21] for our podcast? I don't know. I'm just asking the question. We probably do and I don't

[00:01:26] think I want to even go there because yeah, is it part of their resistance to the idea

[00:01:31] of even thinking in these terms of a secret shopper we're going to get into all this and

[00:01:34] just explain it in a minute is we're kind of a little bit afraid what we're going to

[00:01:38] hear or find out. Yes, there is a first impression people are getting from the things that

[00:01:42] we do and particularly our local churches and when they show up and they finally work

[00:01:47] up the courage to do that. What kind of impression are we giving them and is it one that

[00:01:51] will cause them to want to come back and get to know us some more. So looking forward

[00:01:56] to the conversation today. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like the feeling

[00:02:00] I know that my mother used to be like this. It's like I'm not really feeling great but

[00:02:03] I don't want to go to the doctor because I don't want to tell me what's wrong. And I

[00:02:07] think for a lot of us pastors and churches, I think we're just we're really sensitive

[00:02:14] and it's because we're putting our blood, sweat and tears into the into the job.

[00:02:18] And we're doing our best and we feel like every potentially critical voice feels like an

[00:02:26] indictment on our pastorate which is ridiculous but it's just sort of how how a lot of us feel

[00:02:31] sometimes especially if you're feeling depleted, run down your skin's a little thinner

[00:02:37] and so you might resist some of this stuff but this this has is so critically important

[00:02:43] it's was critically important in my church critically important in the churches that I

[00:02:47] consult with is how do you figure out how to welcome strangers, welcome guests into your building.

[00:02:56] How do you do that on a son for the Sunday morning experience? How do you do that well because

[00:03:01] who cares what a great sermon you're going to preach most of them have already checked out

[00:03:05] the data says if they're having a bad experience before then yeah so this is huge this is like

[00:03:11] the care of souls kind of stuff. And our guest today Greg's going to be sharing more about that

[00:03:15] and you'll introduce him here in a minute but one of the things I appreciate it is how he talked

[00:03:19] about how the stakes are higher for smaller churches we probably have less guests overall coming

[00:03:24] and so we need to be ready to welcome those that actually do show up and there are a lot more

[00:03:30] noticeable and they're probably going to notice some things about us in a way that maybe in a

[00:03:34] in a larger mega church setting or something it would be a different set of set of things to look at

[00:03:38] so I really appreciated the conversation that we got to have a great today.

[00:03:42] Yeah so let's jump in Greg Atkinson many of you know his book Secrets of a Secret Shopper

[00:03:48] Reaching and Keeping Church Guests he's he's done everything I swear that he's got a lot of balls

[00:03:54] in here super successful and he's been around doing great ministry for a long time so we're excited

[00:04:01] let's go for it let's jump into our conversation with Greg Atkinson

[00:04:05] well hey everyone it is so good to welcome to the podcast Greg Atkinson we're going to be talking

[00:04:12] about Reaching and Keeping Church Guests and a lot of you know Greg's work he is an entrepreneur

[00:04:18] a bestselling author international keynote speaker leadership and life coach and business consultant

[00:04:25] he's the founder and CEO of Greg Atkinson Consulting the kindness group worship impressions

[00:04:31] the first impressions conference which is great uh in entrepreneurship entrepreneurial church conference

[00:04:37] as well as the co-founder of the social media church conference Greg has worked with organizations

[00:04:42] of all stages and sizes churches of all stages and sizes including some of the largest and fastest

[00:04:48] growing churches in the country as well as business and nonprofits such as Josh McDowell Ministries

[00:04:55] Greg has been featured in Forbes the Wall Street Journal Christianity today and on CBS Fox

[00:05:01] and NBC and I think he wrote what is the most hands-on helpful book about creating first impressions

[00:05:08] secrets of a secret shopper reaching and keeping church guests I am excited to welcome to the

[00:05:13] podcast Greg Atkinson thank you for having me and as we joke before I hit record I'm like you know

[00:05:20] what am I doing my life how are you fitting all this and you it's maybe that's the most impressive thing

[00:05:26] all right so your life that's it man as you see for those maybe you're watching on YouTube or if

[00:05:35] you're just listening hustle grind and execution are on a right behind them so that explains a lot

[00:05:41] mm-hmm so Greg I know you've got a lot of balls in the air and a lot of things going on I'm hoping

[00:05:48] today we can drill down a bit on first impressions but certainly you don't want to open that up to some

[00:05:55] other things that you were doing but I love just ask how did you get into this how did you get into

[00:06:01] being a church secret shopper I mean what what was the catalyst that kind of made you get into that space

[00:06:11] yeah so this this month is my 30th anniversary in ministry and leadership

[00:06:18] and I have spent 20 years on a church staff and 10 years in business but it's all ministry related

[00:06:26] and been consulting for 20 years and I used to coach church planners with AHRQ I was a part of

[00:06:35] the AHRQ staff and my boss and mentor Billy Hornesby who has since passed away we would travel

[00:06:42] together and we were at a trip somewhere sitting in a hotel lobby in 2009 and I was doing just

[00:06:52] general consulting since 2005 and in 2009 he just looked right at me and said Greg you need to be

[00:06:59] a secret shopper and I said why do you say that he said you just have a really good pulse on the

[00:07:04] church I'm gonna write you your first endorsement and then he emailed the whole art database

[00:07:10] and said you need to hire Greg Ackinson to do a secret shopper and so I just blew up and

[00:07:17] since 2009 I have secret shopp hundreds of churches it just it just grew and grew and grew

[00:07:24] and now there's a lot of people that come across me through a Google search but early on it was

[00:07:31] primarily just word of mouth I've never done marketing never ran ads but if you's Google

[00:07:38] search church secret shopper it's my name that comes up so some people would come across Google

[00:07:43] but usually it was a church telling a church and so it kind of pulped if from Billy Hornesby

[00:07:50] and him seeing something in me that I had not seen. That's awesome and of course a secret shopper

[00:07:57] comes from the marketplace world where you would hire somebody to come into your business

[00:08:01] organization and nobody knows that you're there to check them out and you just go through the

[00:08:06] experience and you notice what you notice and then kind of report back to the company and it's

[00:08:11] interesting that while some churches have been you know used employing this practice there's a lot

[00:08:19] there like what are you talking about I never I never heard about that but how incredibly valuable

[00:08:24] it is we had a consultant years ago when I first started here and he's a friend of the podcast

[00:08:31] Dr. Bob Weitzel and met him in my doctoral work at Fuller Seminary he he came and did some secret

[00:08:38] shopping for us and I was just mortified at what he found it was just like nobody went to greet him

[00:08:46] like and I like I ever such a friendly church nope we're we had all sorts of issues but it was so

[00:08:54] incredibly helpful and it's eye opening it is and whenever we talk about this subject though

[00:09:01] there are some pastors you glaze over a little bit or have a little bit of a reaction to it and say

[00:09:08] well if you just preach the word you'll be fine like you don't need to mess with all this

[00:09:13] bringing the business world into that that's kind of how they see it it's we have our spiritual

[00:09:17] thing and if God wants us to grow he's gonna do it and he's gonna do all these things

[00:09:22] how do you respond when when people respond like that it's often pastors who do it is pastor yeah

[00:09:29] I've heard it my whole career just preached the word of God but um I think you know what Jesus

[00:09:34] talked about being wise to serpent I don't think there's anything wrong with strategy I don't

[00:09:39] think there's anything wrong with learning from outside consultants with uh you know the reason

[00:09:45] I wrote the secret shopper book is so you could see your shop your own church and you don't have to

[00:09:49] pay my fee or hire me or fly me in you know I said do it yourself pay ten bucks for the book and then

[00:09:55] do your own secret shopper but there's gotta be ways to evaluate what we're doing you know in

[00:10:01] business it's all about metrics if we can't measure it then you know done and we gotta be able

[00:10:07] to measure it we gotta be able to look at is what we're doing effective our our processes

[00:10:14] efficient and effective and so I have heard that my entire career the whole just preached the word

[00:10:20] of God but it often comes from uh churches that are not really reaching their community very well

[00:10:28] and what I've found from working with the largest and fastest growing churches in the country

[00:10:33] is they are hungry for growth they really want to reach their neighbors their community they really

[00:10:38] want to um turn first time guests at the second time guests and so when I start with

[00:10:46] and then what I've seen is the results that happen when they invest in that so I have a long list

[00:10:52] this is just Greg's list I have a long list of churches that were not on the outreach magazines

[00:10:59] fastest growing church lists brought me in hired me worked with me and then a year or two later

[00:11:05] I look at the list and I say wow look who's there and it's somebody that I worked with

[00:11:09] and previously but they make the changes they adapt they grow they tweak things they take my action

[00:11:16] step seriously they implement when I ask them to implement and then they take off and and you know

[00:11:23] obviously there's the God factor of what God does and what God is doing in their community

[00:11:29] but I think he honors the fact that they were open to growth and open to bring it in an outside

[00:11:35] perspective you know in our first impressions conference I had my long time

[00:11:41] 20 something year old friend Nelson Cersei speak and he talked about the principle of spiritual readiness

[00:11:49] that God's not going to bless you if you have not prepared in May things as welcoming as possible

[00:11:57] he's not going to send the people your way and he has this whole principle of spiritual readiness

[00:12:03] that if first starts with preparation and then God brings the people to you and uh and obviously

[00:12:10] he seems tremendous growth in a tough city like New York and but um what I have found is

[00:12:17] is uh God blesses a teachable humble spirit that says you know what I don't know everything

[00:12:24] I've lost my new eyes I need somebody to come in and see this from an outside perspective

[00:12:30] and I always you know I just did a very traditional first Baptist church last week

[00:12:35] and I always thank them and say man I love that you are an investing in this I love that you have the

[00:12:42] heart to reach more people um you know and so the way that I explain it to people if we just want

[00:12:49] to get as biblical and basic as possible everybody has a heart for discipleship they say you know

[00:12:57] we just want to go make disciples we want to disciple people the problem is a lot of churches don't

[00:13:03] have a problem with getting guests they have a problem with keeping them and so if a first time

[00:13:09] guess does not come back as a second time guest and a third time guest then guess what you cannot

[00:13:15] walk alongside them and disciple them so your discipleship philosophy is out the window because

[00:13:21] they came once and never came again however if we take first impressions seriously and we welcome

[00:13:27] them and greet them and have prepared for them and they return for a second or third in a fourth

[00:13:33] visit then we get the privilege and opportunity to disciple them and walk alongside them in a spiritual

[00:13:41] journey but it all starts with that first impression yeah that that is very well said I think

[00:13:50] I think just because it's strategic doesn't mean it isn't spiritual right I think I think that's

[00:13:54] that's the mistake that people make what do you think about churches small churches so we start talking

[00:14:01] about this stuff we start talking about we'll get into it a bit with like guest services teams

[00:14:05] and things like that and immediately some of our small church pastors tend to check out because they

[00:14:10] think well we don't have the resources for this kind of thing or this is only for the the airplane

[00:14:14] hanger churches right it's just for the the big crazy fastest growing 100 churches and not for us

[00:14:21] before we jump into some of the some of the details what would you have to say to them

[00:14:26] yes so one that's why I wrote the secret shopper book my publisher Rainer publishing Sam Sam Rainer

[00:14:33] Tom Rainer's son I said hey I do the secret shopper thing I go out primarily 95% to mega churches

[00:14:41] what if I wrote a book where I share everything I do everything I look for so that the typical small

[00:14:48] church can just buy a cheap book and do their own secret shopper and not have to hire an outside

[00:14:54] consultant and Tom Rainer said love it let's do it Sam Rainer said love it let's do it and so we

[00:15:00] we did the book and you know I have super shop small churches I have secret shop church plants

[00:15:07] I went to a I had a buddy of mine where I used to live because man I have done this a long time

[00:15:16] and I've worked with hundreds of churches but I have a visual memory that my wife will tell you

[00:15:21] blows her mind and I can remember every single one and I remember what it looked like walking in

[00:15:26] their lobby I remember the interaction with the pastor I remember it all but I had a buddy one

[00:15:31] time where I used to live who was an independent Baptist preacher and he was filling in at a very small

[00:15:40] church when I say small I mean 12 people and so he said Greg because we were in this pretty same city

[00:15:47] like I was about 15 minutes from his church he said Greg man is there any way that you would come

[00:15:53] secret shop this church that he was kind of doing an interim thing he said would you come secret shop

[00:15:58] this this church and he said I'll buy you lunch I said deal let's do it so I come to this

[00:16:06] independent Baptist church the 12 people you don't have many people talk to me out of the 12

[00:16:13] one the pastor's wife let them people did not talk to me notice me or acknowledge me and that's

[00:16:20] including the usher walking around passing out stuff and so so we went to lunch I chatted with him

[00:16:27] he got fired up he goes back to their Sunday night service and just blast him from the pulpit

[00:16:34] holds up my book and says this guy was here this morning and none of you talked to him he got so

[00:16:40] fired up but I wasn't there that Sunday night but he told me about it but but you know my buddy Carl

[00:16:47] Vators who does a lot with small churches he is coming to my house tomorrow him and his wife are

[00:16:53] gonna come stay for about a week with us up until exponential and he wants to co-write a book together

[00:17:00] we have talked for years about co-writing together but Carl has a heart for small churches and has

[00:17:06] pastored a small church for 30 years and so he's going to be here at my house in Charlotte tomorrow

[00:17:13] in our guest room and we have talked a lot over the years and he taught it our first impressions

[00:17:20] conference and several times he taught it the first impressions conference but one of the things

[00:17:25] that he and I talked about and that he talked about in his message was that first impressions

[00:17:33] yes they matter in a large church but they really matter in a small church like when you walk

[00:17:40] into a small church everybody knows your new everybody recognizes who's this stranger that I've

[00:17:46] never seen before because I pretty much know the 75 that are here every week like it really matters

[00:17:53] in a small church and so if you want somebody to feel warmth and welcome and hospitality and to

[00:18:01] return if you walk in brand new into a smaller church and it is obvious that you are a new

[00:18:08] comer and they don't welcome you then it hurts even more like it's easy to blend in with the

[00:18:15] church of 5000 it is a lot harder to blend into a church of 50 and so that's where the the

[00:18:23] welcome the hospitality the first impressions matter all the more at one of one of Tom Rainer's books

[00:18:30] that I loved his welcome book he was talking about a research study that he did when he was at

[00:18:37] life way and they pulled guests of churches that did not return and he said why did you not return

[00:18:48] as a you know for a second visit why did you leave and the number one answer was after we get past

[00:18:54] the professional people in the park a lot and the greeters and the information booth and the ushers

[00:19:01] once we set down in the congregation nobody spoke to us and that's the number one reason they did

[00:19:07] not return according to life way research and so you know that really stings in a small church and

[00:19:15] that you know my one of my books on hospitality ministry I talked about sectional leaders and how

[00:19:20] you can have people that recognize hey I've never seen this person in my section before and strike

[00:19:26] up a conversation with them but all that to say my heart has always been for the small church I go

[00:19:32] to a small church plant of an intercede church plan of 40 people I am always been passionate about

[00:19:38] small churches and church plants but it matters so much more in a small setting and so I would encourage

[00:19:46] a small church pastor or regular size church pastor to take it seriously and realize they have

[00:19:52] an opportunity to do what I call a biblical mandate of hospitality and make people feel welcome the

[00:20:00] Bible tells us to welcome the stranger yeah I was um let's get into some of that points in the book

[00:20:08] I want I don't want to give it all away right I want folks to buy the books I really do think

[00:20:12] it's one of the best resources that you can have on your shelf when you're thinking about

[00:20:17] you know how do we do this well how do we welcome people well and how do we make them want to come

[00:20:23] back I mean give him a good experience I want to come back so in the book and this was written

[00:20:27] free pandemic so I don't know if some of these things changed but the order of impressions

[00:20:35] you talk about social media your mobile site your church website and then your parking lot

[00:20:42] is that order pretty much the same you think from when you wrote the book yeah if anything online

[00:20:47] matters more uh people there's some studies out people almost always check you out online before

[00:20:54] they come in person not only that what the studies show is they check you out online multiple times

[00:20:59] before they come in person yeah so if you have a live stream or you stream your service online

[00:21:05] they may watch it four to eight times before they ever darken the doors so yeah it matters way more

[00:21:12] Jesse you've seen that at your church I know oh yeah yeah I think for us it's always I mean that's

[00:21:17] the front door now it's never you're meeting somebody who already knows something of who you are

[00:21:21] and what you're about and doing those things and so it's not a cold welcome maybe like it was in

[00:21:26] in the old days it's it's an informed welcome and then and maybe they worked up the courage to

[00:21:30] finally show up man we better be ready to say hello to them and welcome them in so you know one of

[00:21:35] our habits is to try to greet people who maybe are new and if you're new you're joining us online

[00:21:40] we'd love to see you in person and we were always trying to bring it into the community of the

[00:21:45] actually the physical community at the church because that's where we want to be but you got to

[00:21:49] acknowledge that that it starts online so I think that's spot on I'm straking with us yeah and one

[00:21:54] thing you said that I want to piggyback on that I talk about in my books is when somebody visits a

[00:22:00] local church is super brave and it is a big spiritual decision whether they realize it or not the

[00:22:07] courage that it takes to walk into a new community when you know nobody there I have some friends

[00:22:14] that I've been building relationships with that started going to church with me well there's

[00:22:20] a lot of people in my community at my church that have started going through meeting them out

[00:22:24] in the community but the guts that it takes to walk into a new church brand new not knowing anybody

[00:22:31] maybe you're new to Christianity you don't know what's going on it is super courageous and it is a

[00:22:38] big move so one of the things that I teach and that Nelson Cersei teaches is we have to

[00:22:43] steward that well like they have made a big courageous decision to walk through the doors of our local

[00:22:49] church how are we stewarding that that's the question you have to ponder yeah that's spot on yeah

[00:22:56] we always say it's somebody's first Sunday today so let's make sure that we treated as such

[00:23:02] that we're ready for them when they come and that we do a good job of not just welcoming but helping

[00:23:08] them know what to do let's make it easy for them when they walk in to our doors. Let's talk about

[00:23:15] social media for a second I want to drill down on this because you talk about Facebook a lot my

[00:23:20] question really is just is Facebook still the place where most churches should be kind of spending

[00:23:26] their time on social media because there's it's like there's so many platforms and you know none

[00:23:30] of our kids are on Facebook they're on Snapchat and you know all that but is that still like kind of

[00:23:36] the return on investment for time spent on Facebook. Great question you know I was just talking

[00:23:42] with a buddy of mine Nils Smith about this so I have three adult kids none are on Facebook

[00:23:49] but when I have seen what I've seen recently so there's still a lot of ways to engage on Facebook

[00:23:58] especially groups and pages a lot of ways that you can connect with people so I'm still a believer

[00:24:04] Facebook however I probably spend the majority of my time on Instagram and it's amazing to me that

[00:24:12] the only place that I can ever see my kids post because I can't see their Snapchat is Instagram

[00:24:18] so they're 20 somethings and they're on Instagram and all of my friends and Peter's are on Instagram

[00:24:25] and I find myself scrolling and watching way more time on Instagram. Now it is a whole different

[00:24:33] approach than Facebook you know but the way churches are using it usually in my reports I will

[00:24:41] have a list of churches to watch on Instagram when I do a cigarette shop it'll say watch these

[00:24:47] churches they're really killing it when it comes to Instagram but I would definitely not give up

[00:24:53] on Facebook I would just put more strategy and effort into Instagram. Yeah and is it does it sort

[00:25:01] of work the same you talk about the ratio for posting on Facebook is it kind of the same idea

[00:25:08] no matter what platform you're on and again the details in the book are like a certain percentage

[00:25:14] inspiration information conversation and celebration do you find that that kind of holds true even

[00:25:20] with other platforms? Yeah the only thing that I would say that I would take it up the knocks on

[00:25:27] Instagram there's some pastors that I follow that do Reels and they talk to the camera some

[00:25:33] pray some some do spotlight some do the celebration but Instagram has way more appreciation for video

[00:25:45] content so if a pastor is talking to somebody and saying you know today I was reading such and

[00:25:52] I'm praying about this and I want to pray for you just comment and you know in encouraging interaction

[00:25:57] but you could still use those same buckets but how you use it would be a little different whereas

[00:26:03] there may be more of a content without video on Facebook the video would really thrive on Instagram.

[00:26:11] No that's good so other than Tower Hill and what Jason's doing on Instagram all week long

[00:26:16] who who's doing it well out there without spoiling the whole list that that people yet but

[00:26:20] are who's doing well? There's a lot of churches using it well I like Gwinnett Church you know one

[00:26:27] of the North Point campuses I like Gwinnett I like Central and Las Vegas I like Canyon Ridge in Las Vegas

[00:26:37] you know it's amazing I was just talking to my wife recently trying to get her trying to

[00:26:40] convince her to go with me on a Las Vegas trip because I've spoken in Las Vegas so many times

[00:26:45] it's seen so many amazing shows and she's like no I don't want to go it's in city I said you

[00:26:50] wouldn't believe what God's doing there but there are some killer churches I was talking with

[00:26:55] somebody this week at a Waking Church in Las Vegas God is doing some cool stuff in Vegas but out

[00:27:01] of the top five or six churches I watch on Instagram the most two are in Vegas it's unbelievable what

[00:27:09] God is doing you know just tell God he can't do something and watch him do it but God is God is

[00:27:16] doing some cool stuff but I watch Gwinnett Church Central some Canadian churches but there are

[00:27:25] there are a lot of pastors and leaders who are also good to watch you know I was just at a conference

[00:27:31] with Carrie Newhoff he's always got fresh good content Barna and what Barna is putting out

[00:27:38] I like keeping up with conferences like the orange conference and just how they interact with people

[00:27:45] but yeah there's my buddy Tommy Kallonen we are teaching a workshop next week at exponential

[00:27:53] conference together he prays a prayer every day he'll just say today I want to pray for your

[00:27:59] blank and then he'll die right in and start he's walking around homeless camera and praying

[00:28:05] and his follower account just goes up up up up people just love another person who I follow and

[00:28:13] love her prayers is Christina Baker she has a large following and she just prays with people every day

[00:28:20] read scripture and then praise but I honestly for me personally this is a sign note for me

[00:28:27] personally as a leader most of my education and continuing ed these days is Instagram like I watch

[00:28:35] Instagram to learn I follow entrepreneurs life coaches millionaires billionaires pastors

[00:28:46] doctor a men I follow all these like scientists I am constantly learning on Instagram there are so

[00:28:54] much content coming at me that is educational in nature so for me as a leader that believes

[00:29:01] leaders or learners and I want to keep growing I am scrolling through Instagram just learning

[00:29:06] learning learning learning and I'll say post or say reals and I'll think I did know that didn't know

[00:29:12] that it's all learning learning learning but if you're not spending time on Instagram

[00:29:19] so like for example my son he's 21 he doesn't post but he scrolls he's watching and I can see he's

[00:29:28] watching but he doesn't post himself my life is the same way so even if you're a pastor who

[00:29:34] doesn't feel comfortable posting yet you could still follow some accounts and learning grow yeah that's

[00:29:40] that's a great suggestion because I feel like that's just the posture that we need as pastors

[00:29:46] in leaders anyway it's all right I have no idea how to do this stuff but I'm really gonna have no

[00:29:52] idea if I never engage with it so let's jump in and let's learn and let's figure some stuff out

[00:29:58] before we go to in-person worship I just want kind of a quick hit on websites because I still have

[00:30:03] a lot of pastors that are a little bit stuck like they're not putting any resources into their

[00:30:10] website and let alone making it responsive for mobile content which is one of the most important

[00:30:15] things that you can do it's like I joke about it but it's like you know papyrus fonts and precious

[00:30:20] moments like you know we that no bueno we can't we can't do that I mean how much

[00:30:28] maybe this is tough question to answer but what do you think resource wise for a smaller church

[00:30:33] to put some time and money into a website I mean how much we talk at nowadays so I just had two

[00:30:43] websites built from my companies that I love and I think look incredible Greg Ackinson.com

[00:30:48] and onthraturech.com onthraturech is a new initiative I'm doing but I just built two brand new websites

[00:30:55] didn't cost much at all considering what other people may pay and I use these guys that are

[00:31:02] amazing to work with called launchbait creative once here in North Carolina the others in Florida

[00:31:08] Jeremiah and Steve and they knocked it out of the park if you get a chance just go look at

[00:31:13] Greg Ackinson.com see how slick and innovative and creative impressive I spent a little time on

[00:31:19] there it's impressive yeah but it did not cost the fortune not at all and then we just finished

[00:31:25] onthraturech.com to get ready for exponential next week and onthraturech looks incredible they do

[00:31:31] such a good job there's also companies like church co my buddy Paul Cox they do more like a monthly

[00:31:40] fee where they host it and everything for you and it's more of a WordPress based and you can

[00:31:45] use kind of their custom engine that is similar to WordPress but it's their own custom thing but

[00:31:53] there's a lot of churches a lot of church companies that are doing some stuff that is very affordable

[00:31:58] but you know in today's world where I don't know if you're aware but Gen Z just passed

[00:32:06] boomers in the workforce like Gen Z is coming on strong that's my kids generation to 20 somethings

[00:32:12] all three of my kids work all three of my kids are in school but that generation just passed us

[00:32:18] in the workforce so with this new generation they are they are native to good design

[00:32:25] they're used to things looking well somebody reached out to me recently said they had a ministry

[00:32:32] said they wanted to partner with me I go to their website it was the biggest I saw in the world

[00:32:37] and to me that speaks volumes and i'm thinking uh no you're not legit look at your website

[00:32:43] like it speaks volumes and people are that critical when they look at church websites

[00:32:49] they'll look and see like you said is it mobile friendly mobile responsive is it

[00:32:54] sharp looking is it design one of the things that i talk about in my book and i've said for years

[00:33:00] and consulting when i come to your church website do i see a picture of a brick building or do i

[00:33:06] see smiling faces i don't want to see buildings i want to see people interacting people engaging people

[00:33:12] in conversation if i see smiling faces and kids smiling and in uh worship shots that's going

[00:33:20] to engage me and it ties me to want to come check it out if i just see a brick building with a

[00:33:25] steeple that does nothing for me i don't i don't need to see a a brick building but the uh companies

[00:33:32] that are out there it's not as expensive as you would think and again you could just look at

[00:33:37] my two websites that were just built in the last year and um i did not pay a whole lot for them they're

[00:33:44] very affordable but i would say it's a good investment um you know i i knew that i was going on a

[00:33:51] massive podcast with millions of listeners so we pushed to have Greg Aguison.com finished before then

[00:33:59] and then i knew that we're launching onshore church next week at exponentials so we pushed to

[00:34:04] get onshore church built before then because that website impression matters so much yeah yeah so true

[00:34:10] and we put i mean churches put resources into their physical buildings right i mean how many

[00:34:15] tens of thousands of dollars a year for utilities and upkeep and all that and so to not be doing

[00:34:20] something similar with our digital billboard if you want me this is what how people go i would

[00:34:25] see wish you door let's go check it out we should i don't know a whole lot about these people but they

[00:34:30] seem like they might be cool we should go see so that's really our goal with the website it's

[00:34:34] given a little bit of a peek or a taste and some things to engage with and that might say actually

[00:34:38] we should go show up there and meet these people yeah yeah and it's a reminder of and i think you

[00:34:44] you may say this in the book Greg but it's a reminder of who is the website for now more than

[00:34:51] ever it's for the people who aren't coming it's for them it's not for the insiders i mean i guess

[00:34:57] you could have a special sort of login page if you want to membership stuff in there but

[00:35:01] it's really about how are we how are we showing them who we are and and that's why you know

[00:35:07] insider focus would be isn't our building beautiful we just had it redone you know

[00:35:12] but but that's not really people are caring about they want to see okay what's it like inside

[00:35:17] yeah all right just just kind of quickly as um as you know but you put on your consulting hat

[00:35:26] and you're about to you've checked it out online you you get getting a sense of the church maybe

[00:35:31] if i had an interview at the pastor maybe you haven't but you'd go to do your secret shopping

[00:35:36] and you're on your way to the church take us from you're in the parking lot or you get into

[00:35:41] the parking lot what are the top like three things are so that you're really paying attention to

[00:35:48] before the service starts because the stat used to be i think and i think you said this people

[00:35:53] are deciding the first 10 minutes if they're going to come back a second time and then i recently

[00:35:57] saw on your first impressions conference website that that number was seven minutes and i believe

[00:36:03] i believe it so what are the top couple of things really to help pastors get their heads around

[00:36:07] what really matters to a guest coming in great question so like i was just telling somebody in a meeting

[00:36:14] previously um it is a big deal for me to go out now i don't i don't go out much anymore it's

[00:36:21] it's got to be uh just the right fit for me to go out however i do train other consultants and

[00:36:26] certified people i have a secret shopper certification and a cohort and i train others to go out

[00:36:32] and recently in training some of these consultants i was saying to them that here's my big secret

[00:36:38] that nobody knows uh that you know you just mentioned the order uh when i go to a city and i fly in

[00:36:45] and i'm gonna do a secret shopper i don't look at their online presence or website until i get back

[00:36:51] i know for the guests that's the first impression but for me i want to see if i show up on the

[00:36:57] campus of your church do i get lost i don't want to read FAQs on a website i don't want to read

[00:37:03] a new here i do that when i return and when i get on then i evaluate the online presence but

[00:37:10] i want to walk in blindess can be to that parking lot and i want to see do i get lost am i going

[00:37:17] to be confused because i can't just expect that everybody read thoroughly enough on the website

[00:37:24] or clicked on the new here button or plan a visit so i go in completely blind wherever the city is in

[00:37:30] america i walk up and um that stat still holds true i've seen it verified by multiple consultants from

[00:37:39] will mancini it's a tom reiner to mark walks to toney morgan we all agree it's about seven minutes

[00:37:45] however there are other studies scientific studies uh and this is important to realize

[00:37:52] that show that a true and first impressions happens in a millisecond like if i walk up and your

[00:37:58] building is in rough shape instantly i have an impression like you can throw the seven minutes out

[00:38:03] i've already got a bad taste of my mouth because your landscape is bad or your building looks terrible

[00:38:09] on the outside and needs a fresh coat of paint i can in a millisecond make an impression it's the

[00:38:15] same way when we meet people somebody will look us up and down in a millisecond and have an impression

[00:38:21] it's the um don't judge a book by its cover but they do they instantly will make a judgment

[00:38:28] now that could change over time if they warm up to us and say yeah Greg's a big guy with tattoos

[00:38:33] but he's really a nice guy he's really all about but in a millisecond they make a they make an

[00:38:38] impression but that journey from the parking lot into the sanctuary there's about seven minutes

[00:38:46] where a lot is factoring into their mind are they confused it's a my open the door for them

[00:38:52] that anybody wave and greet them was it hard to check in their kids at children's chicken there's

[00:38:57] a lot of stuff that they're factoring in their mind and when they sit down in the service they've

[00:39:02] already made up their mind no not coming back here and the thing i always try to get across because

[00:39:07] this is so important and you guys are pastors it is long before the sermon you know you have worked

[00:39:14] this week on a great sermon but they have already made up their mind because they open the door

[00:39:20] by themselves like if i get to the front door of your church and i have to open it nobody's

[00:39:25] opened it for me that already factors in an impression a negative one if i stop off to use

[00:39:31] the restroom and it smells like urine and there's toilet paper on the floor and not in the trash can

[00:39:36] like i have already made an impression up and so you've really got a that's what the secret

[00:39:42] shopper book was aimed at you really got to take those first seven minutes seriously yeah

[00:39:48] when when you come in what i always say is if you have good people

[00:39:53] to help welcome people it can cover a multitude of sins like let's say your buildings a little

[00:39:58] bit confusing your signage needs some work but hey we're working on it you can overcome some of

[00:40:04] that stuff if you've got really great people in position would you agree with that

[00:40:09] yeah i think there's a balance because one of the things i talk about in both of my books

[00:40:14] is not to an extreme where somebody's an over zealous greeter and they won't stop talking to

[00:40:20] the person or they won't stop shaking it so there's got to be balance but yeah if you're genuinely

[00:40:26] hospitable friendly person with a gift of hospitality and you engage with somebody and welcome them

[00:40:33] in an authentic genuine way then yeah that goes a long way one of one of the pastors here her daughter

[00:40:41] she had this experience when she went to go visit a church and they welcomed there was a small church

[00:40:45] they welcomed her and they like you know they instantly gathered all of her information

[00:40:49] and by the time she got home there was cookies on her porch from the church before she came home from

[00:40:55] church and she was so weirded out by the experience she's like i'm it's the church that follows you

[00:41:01] home i am never gonna go back there i've heard a lot of stories like that now now there was a

[00:41:09] local church that asked me to consult with them one time and i did and then i'm sitting in my

[00:41:15] din in the afternoon watching football somebody rings the doorbell and come there this uh older

[00:41:22] gentleman gives me a plate of cookies homemade chocolate chip cookies and said just wanted to drop

[00:41:28] these by and i sat down and months on those cookies watching football and i thought i don't mind

[00:41:34] i actually but i could understand the whole being weirded out by someone showing up at your doorstep

[00:41:40] he didn't try to evangelize me he didn't try to convert me but i sat down and months on the cookie so

[00:41:47] there's a you know it's one of the things i have learned over the years is there's no cookie

[00:41:52] cutter approach to people some people will be wild by chocolate chip cookies and love them

[00:41:58] some will be freaked out that you showed up at their door everybody's different some people you

[00:42:03] know i work with tons of contractors uh with my business i have some people that will never get on

[00:42:11] the phone like they they will text and if i say hey let's talk about this real quick can you give me

[00:42:16] a call no they will not call no matter what so some people if your church assimilation process

[00:42:22] involves calling some people will be upset because you called them some people will be upset

[00:42:27] because you text them and they reply unsubscribe stop stop texting me like they automatically get

[00:42:33] weirded out by church texting solutions and so uh i would just say try to find something that has

[00:42:41] the most results the best results for you you're not going to hit everybody because nobody's wired

[00:42:47] the same and if 80% people respond to text in 20 don't like it i'm happy with the 80% just find

[00:42:57] what works for your community man this is really good stuff Greg i appreciate it so much appreciate

[00:43:03] your time with us today tell us what what are you working on now you got entrepreneurship coming up

[00:43:09] what are you working on now that you're excited about that you really want uh our listeners to

[00:43:13] know so two big things one now in a post-COVID world i have opened back up my sharni get away

[00:43:21] weekend so i used to do retreats pre-COVID where leaders from all over north america from sialto

[00:43:29] toronto would come spend the weekend with me we did a friday night workshop and team building

[00:43:35] saturday work shop and then we did a tour of three charlotte churches saturday night and two on

[00:43:39] sunday morning and when people left not only was that group of people we limited to 12 not only

[00:43:46] were those 12 people friends for life and they come from all over the country or north america but

[00:43:53] they also got to be a secret shopper as we went to three charlotte churches and we also worked custom

[00:44:00] no cookie cutter custom worked on their ministry uh for friday and saturday we worked on developing

[00:44:07] their ministry and so that got put on hold during covid and now i have brought it back just open up

[00:44:13] registration so if you would like to come hang out a cabin on a lake uh it's the largest manmade

[00:44:20] lake in america we were featured last year in the wall street journal and on the today show as the

[00:44:25] number one resort destination in america so where we are in late normand it's racy de usa home the

[00:44:32] nascar christian macafry is selling his mansion here because he's in san francisco now but this is like

[00:44:38] a beautiful community so i invite people to come here uh we do it spring summer and fall and just

[00:44:44] been the weekend with me going deeper on your ministry so that's sometimes excited it's going on

[00:44:50] and then on to church is launched in next week you can check it out at austrochurch.com

[00:44:55] and that is helping pastors in church just supplement their income so they're not reliant

[00:45:01] purely on ties and offerings if that does not bring in enough money to support your staff and so

[00:45:07] we're helping churches with entrepreneurial ventures or maybe a pastor has the side hustle it could

[00:45:13] be that simple but um a lot of people are excited about that you can go to the um about page and click

[00:45:21] meet the team and see the advisory team that's a part of this and my next call in 15 minutes is with

[00:45:29] a dean of a school we're getting academics involved we're getting bible colleges and seminaries

[00:45:35] involved in how they teach and train pastors to prepare prepare them for a new world where there

[00:45:40] have to be bivocational canada's already there the uk's already there austria's already there

[00:45:46] we have teams and all those countries but um the us is headed to that way uh post christian world

[00:45:52] and so we just want to help prepare the church dang you're crushing it dude you're crushing it

[00:45:58] and by the way i'm sold on the retreat man i i'm like about to leave this conversation and go check

[00:46:03] it out so yeah i'm sending you the link it's uh it it nobody you can read on the page all the

[00:46:10] endorsements nobody that has come didn't enjoy it they are blown away at and you get to experience

[00:46:16] my hospitality because um i take everybody to my favorite restaurants we do fun games together

[00:46:22] it's just it's a really cool experience that's awesome Greg well hey man so appreciate you being on

[00:46:29] the podcast and may god continue to bless the very important and good work that you're doing

[00:46:34] and uh hopefully get a chance to talk again yeah thank you for having me

[00:46:39] jason so much fun to get to talk with Greg just to kind of hear his thoughts and his reflections on

[00:46:44] best practices and first impressions and a wealth of knowledge obviously an experience and helping

[00:46:49] churches do all that well and if you're listening in real time or close to it uh we're close to

[00:46:54] Easter Easter is just around the corner and so you know this kind of a little bit of a kick in the

[00:46:59] pan's honestly to kind of think about are we ready to welcome people well on Easter when we're

[00:47:05] gonna have a lot of guests and that kind of thing so hopefully it didn't create any panic for you as

[00:47:09] you were listening today but what is a couple things you can do to make sure there's somebody out

[00:47:13] there with the smile ready to welcome i i don't know one thing maybe that you can work on

[00:47:17] related to a first impression to get ready for all those guests that are coming

[00:47:21] and uh to put your best foot forward yeah and i think it doesn't have to be a huge thing that

[00:47:27] costs a lot of money i think that's his whole point is yeah there are some things that we may

[00:47:31] want to change the cost money but a lot of these things are just people things you know people

[00:47:36] like hey do we have people who are good with people welcoming guests into the building do they

[00:47:43] know where to go when they get here or can we have somebody making sure they know where to go

[00:47:48] how do we greet them without over greeting them and you could do this just in a couple of conversations

[00:47:53] as you prepare for Easter and i think just that little bit of intentionality can go a long way

[00:47:58] for us we're just talking about this this week is we feel like we need to step up our parking lot

[00:48:04] game and as silly as that sounds it's actually it's no joke it really does matter

[00:48:12] we have a little bit of a of a traffic control problem between two of our services and on Easter

[00:48:17] that's always a little bit exaggerated we want to make sure that it's a good experience that people

[00:48:22] aren't cursing take the Lord's name in vain while they're coming in are you gonna measure

[00:48:29] the number of honking horns is that i mean it's New Jersey okay it's New Jersey so you guys are

[00:48:33] driving here that's right yeah um so we want to make sure that we do that well um so we we're

[00:48:39] putting plants together and we don't really have a parking lot team to speak of yeah and one thing

[00:48:45] that i was really convicted of in his book when i was rereading it this week was what an impression

[00:48:52] that makes and people feel welcomed from the bat and just a smiling face as you're directing them

[00:48:57] to where the parking spots are i don't know i so these are things we're thinking about and i think

[00:49:01] they're all they're worthy things and we're thinking about greeting people little things that add up

[00:49:05] i'm thinking about um piping in waffle cone smell to the sanctuary so people are like so she does say

[00:49:12] in the book he does talk about smidey get a chance to ask him about that i really think there's all

[00:49:16] those little things like i mean as people walk in they smell coffee because we're brewing coffee right

[00:49:21] in the place where everybody gathers and so i mean all those kind of things add up to creating an

[00:49:25] environment of a welcome or uh an environment where i'm not sure what to do or where to go or

[00:49:31] uncertainty or whatever it is and so you know it's but it's so hard as we started at the beginning of

[00:49:36] the episode way back before we talked to Greg it's hard to see with fresh eyes after you've been

[00:49:41] somewhere for a long time yeah maybe you think you're doing okay or passable job but it's never

[00:49:46] hurts to get some fresh eyes on the deal and and think about this again it's not an indictment of

[00:49:51] your leadership or your church it's just it's one of those things that drifts in every congregation

[00:49:56] that we have to come back around and go what's it like if you're new uh and uh i'm thinking those terms

[00:50:02] yeah so uh we're gonna do something that i just decided right now so what yeah there's not a lot of

[00:50:08] my first impression is unhesitant that a whole lot of planning going on but here's here's

[00:50:12] what we're gonna do i want to give away a copy of that book and i want to give away his book called

[00:50:18] hospitality which is sort of a more a to z uh things to look at in your church i'm gonna give those

[00:50:23] two books away so here's how you can win if you subscribe to our weekly email newsletter

[00:50:29] which you could do that right from our website reclaimlator.com if you subscribe i'm gonna pick a

[00:50:35] subscriber to win both not just one it's gonna win both books we're gonna send it out to you so

[00:50:41] other prizes yeah so uh tell you what we'll give this two weeks from actual air date so today is

[00:50:48] March 12th 2024 so on the 26th we'll we'll pull a couple of we'll pull a name and see who won

[00:50:55] the book giveaway but anyway just an encouragement uh to get our weekly newsletter to learn about

[00:51:01] podcast episodes as they go live and other resources but we'll give them away for free so

[00:51:06] subscribe to our newsletter and you're in and we'll see if you're the big winner how's that sound

[00:51:11] Jesse sound alright sounds good to me i mean i'm already subscribed so i'm guess i'm out but

[00:51:17] and i'm subscribing and subscribing again i think no there's no cheating no cheating he can't stack the

[00:51:22] deck there are well hey everyone thanks so much for for listening we do appreciate you and this

[00:51:29] this is a fun journey and honestly all these conversations make Jesse and i better pastors and

[00:51:34] that's the goal that we create a community where we all are getting better because we say the

[00:51:39] solid-time ministry is hard it is so much better when we do it together.