RL 337: The Importance of Self-Leadership

[00:00:00] It's tough sometimes to lead ourselves to, because here's the thing, I almost always know

[00:00:04] what I ought to do.

[00:00:05] I know the direction I ought to be going or the habits and disciplines I ought to be investing

[00:00:09] in and doing, but actually doing that is a challenge.

[00:00:15] Welcome to Episode 337.

[00:00:17] It's been said that the hardest person you'll ever have to lead is yourself, but it's absolutely

[00:00:22] key if you want to keep growing as a follower of Jesus and a leader in the church.

[00:00:27] In this episode we close our April Leadership Series with a final topic, the value of self-leadership.

[00:00:33] That's today on The Reclaimed Leader.

[00:00:35] Hey everyone, welcome to Episode 337 of The Reclaimed Leader.

[00:00:44] I'm Jason Tucker, back again with Jesse Skiffington.

[00:00:47] The last episode on leadership in this series.

[00:00:51] How you doing?

[00:00:52] Yeah, I'm doing great Jason.

[00:00:54] I love talking leadership and it's why we started this conversation way back when

[00:00:59] to think about how do we lead change?

[00:01:01] How do we stay healthy as leaders?

[00:01:02] How do we grow as leaders in the local church and do all that?

[00:01:06] I love talking leadership with you and the folks listening in.

[00:01:10] I hope these are helpful conversations as you're leading in the places where you are,

[00:01:15] where God has called you to lead.

[00:01:17] That word leader can be a big cumbersome word or a scary word or maybe one we

[00:01:25] think of somebody else as a leader.

[00:01:29] But we're in the local church if we're serving as a pastor or an elder or in some leadership

[00:01:34] capacity, whether we like it or not, we're leaders then, leaders that the Lord has

[00:01:39] called.

[00:01:40] I love talking leadership Jason.

[00:01:41] Yeah, you couldn't tell by the name of the podcast, The Reclaimed Leader.

[00:01:45] Yes, we do like talking about leadership.

[00:01:48] By the way for those maybe you're new with us, welcome to The Reclaimed Leader.

[00:01:52] We are just two pastors in the trenches with you trying to lead change and just have healthy

[00:01:59] congregations that serve the Lord and helping others to do the same.

[00:02:03] The idea of Reclaimed Leader was we said a church is like an antique table.

[00:02:12] If your church has been around awhile, you have a church around 50, 70, 100, 200 years.

[00:02:18] It's like an antique table.

[00:02:19] There's two ways an antique table can go.

[00:02:22] Way number one is you put it in the attic and store it because you don't want to get rid

[00:02:25] of it but you don't know what to do with it.

[00:02:27] It just gathers dust and it rots away, making it unusable.

[00:02:32] Or you do what my mother did and you polish that sucker up.

[00:02:38] You put like a high coat of lacquer on it and don't you dare put your drink on it

[00:02:43] because you're going to ruin it so it becomes a museum piece that is again unusable.

[00:02:49] The idea is we want to take our churches and make them like reclaimed wood tables, taking

[00:02:56] what has been.

[00:02:57] We've got a history.

[00:02:58] We've got roots but we're making it new and usable and I think beautiful for the next

[00:03:02] generation.

[00:03:04] Leadership's a big part of the table problem.

[00:03:08] How do you become a reclaimed table?

[00:03:11] That takes some work.

[00:03:12] It does and especially in our denominational churches.

[00:03:15] A lot of you listening in are connected in a denominational church setting and so that

[00:03:20] is part of the work.

[00:03:21] How do we take something that's been around for a long, long time that needs some work,

[00:03:26] needs some revitalization, needs some retooling in order to make it useful or make it sustainable

[00:03:32] for the long run?

[00:03:33] The cool thing is people love it when old things are made new again or made usable

[00:03:38] again.

[00:03:39] People are drawn to that rootedness and that history.

[00:03:41] I think as churches that have been around, if that's you and your church, you have an

[00:03:46] opportunity that is really incredible if you're able to go through that revitalization and

[00:03:52] that reclaiming of a healthy, flourishing church.

[00:03:57] That was our goal starting out at the beginning, Jason.

[00:03:59] In fact, that's the image we started with 300 whatever odd episodes ago.

[00:04:03] It's crazy, right?

[00:04:06] Part of the leadership journey is learning how to lead yourself.

[00:04:11] We titled this The Value of Self-Leadership.

[00:04:15] Actually, this episode is inspired from me doing some of that for myself.

[00:04:19] I was listening to a couple of leadership podcasts from some of our non-denominational

[00:04:24] friends and Jason and I, if you know us, we like to take some of the thinking in the

[00:04:29] non-denominational world and then translate it into denominational church land.

[00:04:34] I was listening to a couple episodes and one in particular jumped out is by a guy

[00:04:38] named Craig Groeschel, who's part of Life Church and if you know about Life Church

[00:04:41] and in the Midwest and it's grown from there.

[00:04:44] But it's about the value of self-leadership, the importance of leading ourselves

[00:04:50] if we're going to lead healthy churches and healthy organizations or lead change

[00:04:54] or maybe a better way to put it, Jason, survive leading change.

[00:04:58] We need to lead ourselves first and be healthy in our own sense of our identity

[00:05:03] as leaders and growing in that so that we can lead others well.

[00:05:07] So we're going to be talking about self-leadership today.

[00:05:10] Yeah.

[00:05:11] And it's a reminder that we're integrated beings.

[00:05:14] So as our spiritual health, physical health, emotional health goes,

[00:05:21] so does our leadership.

[00:05:22] It's all connected.

[00:05:24] You can't just sort of segment each area of your life and pretend

[00:05:27] it doesn't have an effect on the other.

[00:05:28] So for me, this is where this hits home.

[00:05:31] And I'm always reminded of how important this is to think about.

[00:05:34] It's like the trivial pursuit wagon wheel or pie.

[00:05:39] Right?

[00:05:39] We have all the little slices for all the different categories,

[00:05:43] but we're reminded that it is one integrated whole.

[00:05:45] So let's jump into it.

[00:05:48] Yeah, let's do it.

[00:05:48] So here's kind of the reality of it.

[00:05:51] If you're like me, the hardest person to lead is likely yourself.

[00:05:55] Right?

[00:05:56] It's tough sometimes to lead ourselves to because here's the thing.

[00:06:00] I almost always know what I ought to do or at least pretty close.

[00:06:04] I know the direction I ought to be going or the habits and disciplines

[00:06:07] I ought to be investing in and doing, but actually doing that is a challenge.

[00:06:13] And I think it kind of cuts down into our ability to have healthy

[00:06:18] disciplines and then into our character even to be the kind of people

[00:06:22] that are thinking carefully about how are we doing at leading ourselves?

[00:06:26] And so what I appreciated in Craig's comments was he just was

[00:06:31] reflecting on your potential to lead really is a direct result of how you

[00:06:36] lead yourself and it really has to do with understanding yourself as a leader,

[00:06:42] investing in yourself as a leader.

[00:06:44] And then what are you taking in on a consistent basis as a leader to stay

[00:06:49] healthy for the long call?

[00:06:50] And so we're going to look at those three areas and just kind of talk through.

[00:06:54] I'm sure there's a dozen other things that we could talk about, but

[00:06:57] we're going to talk about self-leadership in these kind of these three main

[00:07:00] categories and just reflect on a little how are we doing at self-leadership?

[00:07:04] So let's dive in and know that you're probably the hardest person to lead

[00:07:11] in your own life.

[00:07:13] And if you can learn to lead yourself, it's going to help you in your

[00:07:16] leadership of others.

[00:07:16] So first things first, leading yourself begins with developing your leadership identity.

[00:07:22] So who am I as a leader?

[00:07:25] How has God made me having an awareness of who I am as a leader and kind of

[00:07:29] seeing yourself as a leader?

[00:07:31] Now, some of us, I don't know if you got into ministry because you saw

[00:07:34] yourself as a leader, Jason or whatever.

[00:07:36] But sometimes we maybe don't have a really well developed sense that no,

[00:07:40] I am, I am a leader and I'm going to lead people in the direction we're

[00:07:44] going to go.

[00:07:45] So developing as self-awareness around who I am as a leader is a pretty

[00:07:50] crucial part of self-leadership.

[00:07:53] Owning that title or owning that mindset of leadership.

[00:07:57] You and I, we played on the same flag football team.

[00:08:00] Championship flag football team.

[00:08:01] Championship flag football team.

[00:08:03] We made it to the championship game one year and then one at the next year.

[00:08:06] So we're kind of a dynasty of sorts, you might even say.

[00:08:10] During our 70s.

[00:08:11] I think dynasty is the right word.

[00:08:12] I think so.

[00:08:13] Few others listening in might dispute that.

[00:08:15] But I remember at one point in the first season, we were going through

[00:08:20] and the team was having a hard time and we were winning some and losing

[00:08:24] some and all that.

[00:08:25] And we got to the playoffs and our kind of the older guy that was

[00:08:29] leading the team, organizing the team said, we want you to try playing

[00:08:33] quarterback today.

[00:08:34] And I was like, wait a minute, I'm just the receiver that runs the

[00:08:37] routes that I'm told to run.

[00:08:38] And now you want me to be the guy calling the plays and do it.

[00:08:41] You remember that?

[00:08:42] Yeah.

[00:08:42] And the guy who said that had a rocket college level arm.

[00:08:47] He sure did.

[00:08:48] Yeah, he was like all state Texas football player.

[00:08:50] Right?

[00:08:51] And he's like, no, you who can like barely lob the ball down the field.

[00:08:54] Not really.

[00:08:55] I mean, I'm an OK athlete.

[00:08:56] You did fine.

[00:08:57] You did fine.

[00:08:58] But here I was like, okay, I guess I'm the leader now.

[00:09:01] And so I better start what?

[00:09:03] I better start acting like a leader and learning how to be a

[00:09:06] leader and taking that role seriously.

[00:09:09] And so, you know, that's what we did.

[00:09:12] I remember we were the underdog in those two playoff games.

[00:09:15] We ended up winning them both and getting to the championship.

[00:09:18] And then we won it the next season, but it was a change in

[00:09:21] mindset more than anything else.

[00:09:23] And I think sometimes people make the mistake of thinking of

[00:09:27] leadership as a position or a title or something like that.

[00:09:31] But really it's about what's going on in your head and heart.

[00:09:35] In your understanding of who are you in this organization or

[00:09:39] who are you to the people around you?

[00:09:41] And when you're the pastor, even if you have more of a

[00:09:43] pastoral care heart or that kind of thing, by default, people

[00:09:48] are looking to you as a leader.

[00:09:51] And the question is in your own self-awareness and as you're

[00:09:54] leading yourself, are you willing to embrace that identity and

[00:09:57] that mindset of a leader and kind of live your role as a

[00:10:02] pastor from that place?

[00:10:04] And I think that's a crucial one for us to get clear about.

[00:10:06] Are we leading ourselves around our identity as leaders

[00:10:09] and cultivating that sense?

[00:10:10] I really am called to lead.

[00:10:12] The Lord put me here to help lead this group of people in

[00:10:14] this direction and the way He wants us to go.

[00:10:17] And I'm always encouraged that anytime the Lord seemed to call

[00:10:20] somebody in scripture, they do not feel up to the task.

[00:10:25] Yeah.

[00:10:25] The Lord's identified them.

[00:10:27] You know, you're called to lead and then, you know, on a

[00:10:29] few occasions, no, I'm not, you know, like, like, no,

[00:10:33] you are.

[00:10:33] And it's encouraging because I think a healthy, a healthy

[00:10:40] sense of humility and who the heck am I to do this thing is

[00:10:45] good because it means you're going to be depending on the Lord.

[00:10:47] So don't think that maybe hesitancy is a problem.

[00:10:54] I think, I think it only becomes a problem when you

[00:10:56] fail to adopt the title of leader when you've been

[00:10:59] called to do that.

[00:11:00] Truly.

[00:11:00] Pastors, you've been called to lead.

[00:11:03] If it's not you in the church, who's going to do it?

[00:11:05] It's, I mean, it's, you're the one who's the

[00:11:08] default that everybody's looking towards, whether you,

[00:11:10] whether you like that or not.

[00:11:12] Yeah.

[00:11:12] Yeah.

[00:11:13] But the Lord's not going to let you down.

[00:11:15] For such a time is this kind of moment, right?

[00:11:17] It really is that.

[00:11:18] And I think sometimes in churches, pastors kind of

[00:11:22] abdicate that role of leader and kind of go, oh, no, I

[00:11:26] don't want to over engineer and oversteer.

[00:11:28] And, you know, this is, I'm just an interim passing

[00:11:31] through and that kind of thing.

[00:11:32] And that is all true and good, but there are healthy

[00:11:34] ways to stand up as a leader and help guide it.

[00:11:37] A congregation in the way it should go.

[00:11:39] And that's part of self leadership is learning to

[00:11:43] acknowledge and sort of take some ownership over that

[00:11:46] part of your life that I am, I'm called to lead

[00:11:49] in this way at this time and this place.

[00:11:51] And so it's pretty important, I think.

[00:11:53] And I think I just, I had just had this thought.

[00:11:56] So it's half baked.

[00:11:59] Take care, take care of what it is.

[00:12:01] But I'm sure there was a time not too long ago

[00:12:06] when a pastor could be in the church and be on

[00:12:08] cruise control and not feel like they had to lead a lot.

[00:12:16] But if you look around at the landscape of the church

[00:12:18] today and what's happening, we need people to step

[00:12:23] into their calling of leadership.

[00:12:26] And I think it's more critical today maybe

[00:12:29] than it's been.

[00:12:32] I mean, I have, you know, recency bias.

[00:12:35] So at least in my lifetime, I can't think of another

[00:12:38] time when we need more leadership than we need right now.

[00:12:41] So.

[00:12:41] Yeah.

[00:12:42] And we heard from Caitlin a couple of weeks ago about

[00:12:45] it doesn't mean you have to be this hard driving

[00:12:46] apostle type visionary leader.

[00:12:48] Right.

[00:12:50] You can lead from a pastor teacher kind of place

[00:12:53] and yet as a pastor, we're in this unique position

[00:12:56] to kind of guide the direction.

[00:12:58] And truly, I think the best leaders, and maybe

[00:13:01] this is the flag football analogy, the ones that go

[00:13:03] the farthest or the ones that are surrounded by

[00:13:05] amazing talent all around them and just know how

[00:13:08] to bring out the best of other people.

[00:13:10] And so as a leader, that's kind of how I approach

[00:13:13] my role here at Marine View is I might not be the

[00:13:16] best at everything.

[00:13:17] I certainly don't know how to relate to middle

[00:13:18] schoolers as well as I should.

[00:13:20] You can just ask my kids who are 12 and 14

[00:13:22] and they'll be like, yeah, I have some awesome

[00:13:25] people that do that who lead in our middle

[00:13:27] school arena.

[00:13:28] And so sometimes leading is letting other

[00:13:31] people loose and finding the gifts and talents

[00:13:33] of the people around them.

[00:13:35] And you know, I so leadership, what is your

[00:13:38] identity as a leader?

[00:13:39] And are you willing to lead yourself around

[00:13:43] your growing identity as a leader and just

[00:13:45] embracing that part of your role and thinking

[00:13:48] about what kind of leader am I?

[00:13:50] Who am I influencing?

[00:13:51] Who's following behind me?

[00:13:54] How can I get the most out of helping other

[00:13:56] people take the roles that are going to

[00:13:59] help us move forward?

[00:14:00] So I think that self-understanding or

[00:14:02] self-awareness of your role as a leader is

[00:14:05] a key of self-leadership.

[00:14:07] What does it look like, Jesse, to embrace

[00:14:11] that role as leader?

[00:14:13] For me, I think it was I'm going to get fed.

[00:14:19] I'm going to learn.

[00:14:20] I'm going to go to conferences.

[00:14:22] I'm going to read books.

[00:14:23] I'm going to try to listen to what leaders

[00:14:26] are saying and start to learn that.

[00:14:28] For me, that was how that got started.

[00:14:30] What about for you?

[00:14:31] I think so.

[00:14:31] Yeah, I think so.

[00:14:32] For me too, it was sort of embracing that

[00:14:35] identity and when I remember my college

[00:14:38] pastor, he stole from Don James who's the

[00:14:40] Husky Football Coach, but they had this

[00:14:42] saying if it is to be, it is up to me

[00:14:44] or whatever.

[00:14:45] And certainly in the church, it's not just

[00:14:47] up to us.

[00:14:47] God's at work, the Holy Spirit's moving

[00:14:49] and all that.

[00:14:49] But it's sort of when you finally take

[00:14:51] ownership of a leadership role and say,

[00:14:53] I am one of the leaders or I am a

[00:14:56] really important leader here in embracing

[00:14:58] that identity, I think you kind of take

[00:15:00] some ownership in a new way.

[00:15:02] Yeah.

[00:15:03] You stand a little taller maybe.

[00:15:05] You think more deeply and carefully.

[00:15:07] You care more passionately about what's

[00:15:09] going on when you step into that role

[00:15:11] as leader.

[00:15:12] You're not just somebody on the sideline

[00:15:13] of the team.

[00:15:14] You're integral.

[00:15:15] You're vital.

[00:15:16] And so I think it does actually have

[00:15:18] this elevating impact on yourself as well.

[00:15:21] So leading yourself around your leadership

[00:15:24] identity and I think that is one of

[00:15:25] the growth areas for a lot of pastors

[00:15:28] and denominational churches to not

[00:15:30] become a dictatorial leader, but to see

[00:15:32] yourself as someone who has great

[00:15:34] influence in this organization.

[00:15:36] How am I doing with that?

[00:15:38] What's that look like?

[00:15:39] And am I growing around that identity?

[00:15:40] So lead yourself by developing your

[00:15:42] leadership identity.

[00:15:44] And hopefully that looks a lot like

[00:15:45] a servant leader who's humble and

[00:15:47] gracious and yet moves people towards

[00:15:49] a mission.

[00:15:50] Okay.

[00:15:50] The second one you kind of alluded

[00:15:52] to this is has to do with investing

[00:15:55] in yourself.

[00:15:56] So self leadership has to do with a

[00:15:58] continual kind of growth process that

[00:16:01] you invest in the tools and

[00:16:03] disciplines of leadership over time.

[00:16:05] If you're going to lead yourself,

[00:16:07] then you need to be able to identify

[00:16:09] areas of growth and then grow in

[00:16:12] them or figure out how to make them

[00:16:16] work in your organization.

[00:16:18] Or if there are weaknesses, maybe

[00:16:21] you need to find somebody that's

[00:16:22] really great at and bring them

[00:16:23] alongside you.

[00:16:24] But are you investing in yourself as

[00:16:26] a leader?

[00:16:27] What are you working on as a leader?

[00:16:30] Or have you kind of got stagnant and

[00:16:32] settled kind of for the status quo?

[00:16:34] And I gotta be honest, Jason, I think

[00:16:36] this last couple years for me, I've

[00:16:37] been coasting on a lot of the

[00:16:39] leadership skills and abilities that

[00:16:41] I learned over the last decade.

[00:16:43] And when I was listening to this

[00:16:45] podcast again, I was like, oh man,

[00:16:47] I gotta invest in myself as a leader.

[00:16:49] That's part of self leadership.

[00:16:51] Grow, keep on growing, keep gaining

[00:16:53] more tools in my leadership tool

[00:16:56] belt for the sake of the health of

[00:16:58] the church that I'm called to lead.

[00:17:00] So when you're thinking about

[00:17:02] investing in yourself as a leader,

[00:17:04] you kind of alluded to this.

[00:17:05] You started out by doing conferences,

[00:17:08] reading books.

[00:17:10] We started a podcast to talk

[00:17:12] leadership.

[00:17:13] So we were investing in those

[00:17:15] things and I think you can do that

[00:17:16] in kind of a general way.

[00:17:17] You kind of bring in a lot of

[00:17:19] leadership content and kind of

[00:17:20] absorb that and understand what

[00:17:22] we mean by adaptive leadership and

[00:17:24] things like that.

[00:17:25] And then there are times when you

[00:17:27] need to drill down into some one

[00:17:29] specific aspect of your leadership

[00:17:31] and work on that part.

[00:17:33] So if you think about

[00:17:35] self leadership

[00:17:37] and you think about an area where

[00:17:39] you need to improve or to grow,

[00:17:42] and you've known about it for a

[00:17:43] little while and now you're

[00:17:44] willing to be actually honest

[00:17:46] with yourself enough to name it

[00:17:47] or say it out loud.

[00:17:49] What are you going to do to not

[00:17:51] just leave it alone but actually

[00:17:52] drill down and work on it?

[00:17:54] Self leadership is about following

[00:17:56] through to grow in that area.

[00:17:57] So for me, one of the things I

[00:18:00] wrote down as I was working on this

[00:18:01] and I don't want any of my staff

[00:18:03] to see it so hopefully they're

[00:18:04] listening.

[00:18:05] But I wrote delegation on there.

[00:18:08] This is a specific area where

[00:18:10] I need to grow especially in this

[00:18:12] season of life that we're in

[00:18:14] as a church where we're growing

[00:18:15] and lots of things are happening

[00:18:17] and I can't have everything on my

[00:18:18] plate or it will be the ceiling

[00:18:20] so quickly on our organization.

[00:18:22] I got to delegate and it's

[00:18:24] something that I need to grow in

[00:18:26] and get better at as a manager

[00:18:27] and as a leader.

[00:18:29] And so that's my specific thing

[00:18:31] that I need to figure out

[00:18:33] what are my next steps to grow

[00:18:35] as someone who delegates

[00:18:37] effectively and well,

[00:18:39] who doesn't just know that I need

[00:18:40] to do it but actually falls

[00:18:41] through to gain the skills to do

[00:18:43] that.

[00:18:44] By getting really clear

[00:18:45] and picking one specific thing

[00:18:47] to work on,

[00:18:49] we're going to gain a new tool

[00:18:50] on our tool belt

[00:18:51] and over time,

[00:18:52] hopefully we grow the number of

[00:18:54] tools that we have in our tool

[00:18:55] belt.

[00:18:55] So I don't know about you, Jason,

[00:18:57] but is there a specific area

[00:18:59] of growth or where you feel

[00:19:01] like I need to invest it

[00:19:03] specifically in this area

[00:19:04] of my leadership?

[00:19:05] Do you have anything like that?

[00:19:06] Yeah.

[00:19:08] I mean, that's a little vulnerable,

[00:19:09] Jesse.

[00:19:10] Yeah.

[00:19:11] Well, nobody's listening.

[00:19:12] That's okay.

[00:19:13] Okay, great.

[00:19:14] But yeah, I'm not going to say

[00:19:15] it just it rhymes with

[00:19:16] shm management.

[00:19:18] So

[00:19:19] yeah.

[00:19:20] Yeah.

[00:19:20] So management has always been

[00:19:23] a tough thing for me

[00:19:26] to figure out.

[00:19:28] And that is how do I actively

[00:19:31] communicate with those

[00:19:33] who report to me

[00:19:35] and give them the right sized

[00:19:38] amount of praise

[00:19:41] and constructive criticism

[00:19:43] and real time feedback

[00:19:45] that helps them grow

[00:19:47] as leaders

[00:19:49] and helps them know that I value

[00:19:51] them as leaders.

[00:19:53] I've always struggled with this

[00:19:54] and this is one I just keep

[00:19:57] working at.

[00:19:57] And understanding it's not my

[00:19:59] gifting,

[00:20:00] but it doesn't mean I can't work

[00:20:01] at it to try to be a better

[00:20:03] leader.

[00:20:03] Does that make sense?

[00:20:04] Totally.

[00:20:05] Totally does.

[00:20:05] Yeah.

[00:20:05] And not everything needs to be

[00:20:07] your strength.

[00:20:07] In fact, it can't be.

[00:20:09] Not everything can be your

[00:20:10] strength.

[00:20:10] And there's some things,

[00:20:11] there's the idea called

[00:20:12] scaffolding where we notice

[00:20:14] a weakness and so we build

[00:20:15] some support around it to get

[00:20:17] help from other people to do

[00:20:18] that part well.

[00:20:19] Or maybe it's just a skill set

[00:20:22] we haven't developed or knowledge

[00:20:23] that we're missing

[00:20:24] and we need to go and find it.

[00:20:26] And so I think when we move

[00:20:27] from a generic kind of,

[00:20:29] hey, I'm going to go and learn

[00:20:30] about leadership,

[00:20:31] which is important,

[00:20:32] read broadly,

[00:20:33] get all that kind of,

[00:20:34] kind of the bigger picture.

[00:20:35] But then we pick one thing

[00:20:36] to really focus on.

[00:20:38] We can lead ourselves well

[00:20:40] when we identify an area of

[00:20:41] focus and then develop it

[00:20:43] and dive into it

[00:20:44] and grow our abilities

[00:20:46] and our skills

[00:20:47] and I think,

[00:20:48] I don't remember who said it,

[00:20:49] but basically with something

[00:20:50] like you can't lead yourself

[00:20:52] while you're lying to yourself.

[00:20:54] So it's something.

[00:20:56] That's things a little.

[00:20:57] Yeah, yeah.

[00:20:57] But you're doing,

[00:20:59] I think exactly the opposite.

[00:21:00] You're being honest with yourself

[00:21:01] about an area that needs work

[00:21:04] and needs growth

[00:21:05] and we lead ourselves

[00:21:07] when we have the ability

[00:21:08] to be honest about what needs

[00:21:09] improvement.

[00:21:10] And then we don't just name it,

[00:21:12] but we actually take some steps

[00:21:13] to investigate

[00:21:15] and to grow in that skill or ability.

[00:21:17] So we have a leadership identity

[00:21:19] that we can foster

[00:21:20] and develop.

[00:21:20] That part of self-leadership

[00:21:22] is kind of taking ownership of that

[00:21:23] and figuring out who we are

[00:21:24] as a leader,

[00:21:25] how God wired us.

[00:21:26] And then the next part

[00:21:27] is looking at some specific things

[00:21:29] in leadership,

[00:21:30] leading ourselves to grow

[00:21:32] and keep on growing

[00:21:33] as leaders,

[00:21:34] no matter how long

[00:21:35] we've been after it

[00:21:36] and you and I Jason,

[00:21:37] we're a ways into our careers now

[00:21:39] and it can be easy

[00:21:40] to kind of put in on cruise control.

[00:21:43] And we have gained a lot of

[00:21:44] knowledge and skills that maybe

[00:21:46] are kind of on cruise control

[00:21:48] in some areas,

[00:21:48] but there probably are

[00:21:49] some things we need to drill down

[00:21:51] on and get better at.

[00:21:51] So self-leadership means

[00:21:52] just keep working on it

[00:21:54] and be honest with yourself

[00:21:55] about what needs improvement

[00:21:56] and if you really have guts

[00:21:58] ask people around you

[00:21:59] what you need to work on

[00:22:00] as a leader.

[00:22:02] And that's a really scary one.

[00:22:03] So I don't know.

[00:22:04] That's for an advanced class

[00:22:05] I think next time

[00:22:06] or whatever.

[00:22:07] But then once you pick an area

[00:22:09] and this is one for me,

[00:22:10] I always,

[00:22:11] I have a lot of good intentions

[00:22:12] about this kind of stuff.

[00:22:13] So I've had delegation written down

[00:22:15] for a long time.

[00:22:15] Management delegation,

[00:22:16] they're kind of the same camp.

[00:22:17] Communication clarity

[00:22:18] with your team, all that.

[00:22:20] And I realized

[00:22:21] I just haven't made a lot of

[00:22:22] traction on it.

[00:22:23] But now I'm saying it out loud

[00:22:25] to the whole,

[00:22:26] you know,

[00:22:26] the whole world,

[00:22:27] all 20 million of our listeners

[00:22:29] are gonna hold me accountable

[00:22:31] to that now.

[00:22:32] So now it's sometimes

[00:22:34] we just have to say to someone,

[00:22:35] Jason,

[00:22:36] I'm going to work on delegation.

[00:22:38] Can you hold me accountable?

[00:22:39] Ask me about how it's going

[00:22:41] so that I'm more likely

[00:22:42] to follow through

[00:22:43] and take some steps on it.

[00:22:44] So self-leadership means

[00:22:45] keep working on it,

[00:22:46] keep growing as a leader.

[00:22:47] Don't get stuck,

[00:22:49] don't get stagnant

[00:22:50] and don't,

[00:22:50] above all things,

[00:22:51] don't lie to yourself

[00:22:52] about where the work

[00:22:54] needs to be done.

[00:22:55] So those two,

[00:22:56] your leadership identity,

[00:22:58] lead yourself around that,

[00:22:59] invest in yourself,

[00:23:00] keep growing,

[00:23:00] keep on growing.

[00:23:01] And then be discerning

[00:23:03] about your,

[00:23:04] what Craig Groschel

[00:23:05] called your leadership inputs.

[00:23:06] What are you putting into your life

[00:23:08] and what's coming out

[00:23:10] in your life

[00:23:11] because of what you're putting

[00:23:12] in, if that makes sense?

[00:23:13] Another way to put it is

[00:23:14] what you put in

[00:23:15] is what's going to come out.

[00:23:16] It's kind of

[00:23:17] out of the overflow

[00:23:18] of the heart the mouth speaks.

[00:23:19] It's that kind of idea.

[00:23:20] And we've talked a lot

[00:23:21] about healthy habits

[00:23:22] and that kind of thing

[00:23:23] but we know when we're eating

[00:23:24] well, we're getting rest,

[00:23:26] we're exercising,

[00:23:27] we're spending time

[00:23:28] in God's Word and in prayer

[00:23:29] and finding space

[00:23:30] for our families and ourselves.

[00:23:32] It makes us a better version

[00:23:33] of ourselves as leaders.

[00:23:35] What you put in

[00:23:36] is what you get out.

[00:23:37] So I don't know,

[00:23:38] Jason,

[00:23:38] you work a lot on this.

[00:23:40] Is that something you found

[00:23:41] to be kind of ring true?

[00:23:43] It's, yes.

[00:23:45] It is one of the most important

[00:23:47] things that I need

[00:23:48] to constantly think about

[00:23:50] because the way that I'm wired,

[00:23:53] my gravitational pull

[00:23:54] is to minimize effort.

[00:24:01] That never really is a problem

[00:24:03] on the things

[00:24:04] that are really core

[00:24:06] to my ministry job.

[00:24:09] For whatever reason,

[00:24:11] I don't seem to have

[00:24:13] that gravitational pull

[00:24:14] when it comes to creating

[00:24:15] content or sermons

[00:24:17] or things that are really

[00:24:19] critical to what I do

[00:24:20] is in my role as pastor.

[00:24:22] I do have this everywhere else

[00:24:25] where I will sacrifice

[00:24:29] a lot of things

[00:24:30] to not make sacrifices

[00:24:33] when it comes to making sure

[00:24:35] that I am eating right,

[00:24:37] sleeping well,

[00:24:38] making sure I'm not endlessly

[00:24:41] consuming content

[00:24:42] that's disrupting what God wants

[00:24:45] to do in my life,

[00:24:45] whether it's through social media

[00:24:47] or through Netflix,

[00:24:48] Benjying or whatever.

[00:24:49] I don't swear all that stuff off

[00:24:51] because I think then

[00:24:53] it would make me think about it more.

[00:24:55] But how do I have

[00:24:57] just some healthy practices?

[00:25:00] And I had lost a ton of weight

[00:25:03] before the pandemic.

[00:25:04] I found two thirds of it again

[00:25:07] in the pandemic and after.

[00:25:09] And now I'm back on the trend of healthier.

[00:25:12] It's just something I'm always thinking about.

[00:25:13] But when I'm in this mode

[00:25:15] of, you know,

[00:25:17] I'm lifting, I'm working out,

[00:25:18] I'm eating right,

[00:25:19] I'm sleeping right,

[00:25:19] I'm having better work-life balance,

[00:25:23] I'm a way better leader.

[00:25:25] That's right.

[00:25:26] And it's not even close.

[00:25:27] And it's like I forget

[00:25:29] I have amnesia,

[00:25:30] selective amnesia.

[00:25:31] I'm like, oh, wait a minute.

[00:25:32] I knew this.

[00:25:33] Yeah.

[00:25:34] Yeah.

[00:25:35] That's so true.

[00:25:37] I think one of the red flags is

[00:25:39] if you start like

[00:25:41] thinking of an Instagram meme

[00:25:43] that you're going to work into your sermon

[00:25:45] and you're like start operating in sound bites,

[00:25:48] like whoa, like maybe that's a time

[00:25:50] to pump the brakes.

[00:25:51] It's a bridge too far.

[00:25:52] Yeah.

[00:25:52] Maybe you pump the brakes a little bit

[00:25:54] and go, wait a minute.

[00:25:55] Probably I'm overindulging in that area.

[00:25:57] Really this is about discipline,

[00:25:59] right?

[00:25:59] And yeah,

[00:26:00] other ways of our life

[00:26:01] that then impact our leadership.

[00:26:02] And it's,

[00:26:04] I think it's an ongoing journey.

[00:26:05] It's a battle

[00:26:06] and it has to do with our habits

[00:26:08] and doing the little things

[00:26:10] over time to add up to big things

[00:26:12] and help us in the long run.

[00:26:14] But it's hard.

[00:26:15] Every time a bag of high chews

[00:26:17] comes into our house from Costco,

[00:26:19] that's a challenge for me, Jason.

[00:26:21] It's like, you know.

[00:26:22] So these things are going to keep coming at us,

[00:26:24] but it's important to have it on our radar.

[00:26:26] How are we doing it leading

[00:26:27] ourselves around those important

[00:26:29] habits and self-disciplines

[00:26:30] that lead to a healthier

[00:26:32] all of our life,

[00:26:33] you know, all the things.

[00:26:34] And so that's an important one.

[00:26:37] Am I being disciplined about that

[00:26:39] and really thinking in terms of

[00:26:42] its impact on my leadership?

[00:26:44] And then a second one,

[00:26:45] and I appreciated this,

[00:26:48] has this idea,

[00:26:49] am I trying anything new?

[00:26:51] Yeah.

[00:26:51] I think that's good.

[00:26:53] Are you taking in something new

[00:26:54] or a new experience

[00:26:55] or something you haven't done before

[00:26:56] or something hard

[00:26:58] because it's going to teach you something

[00:26:59] you're going to learn?

[00:27:01] I find sometimes

[00:27:02] you were talking about creating content

[00:27:04] and things earlier.

[00:27:05] Man, I can't, it's hard.

[00:27:07] If I'm just going week to week to week

[00:27:09] in my job

[00:27:09] and I'm not doing anything

[00:27:11] for myself

[00:27:11] or challenging outside of work

[00:27:13] or learning something new,

[00:27:14] I feel like I run out of examples so fast.

[00:27:17] Everybody's heard all my best stories

[00:27:18] four or five times.

[00:27:20] So when you're trying something new

[00:27:22] or you're taking a step,

[00:27:24] maybe you're learning a new language

[00:27:25] or you're going to run a half marathon

[00:27:26] or whatever it is,

[00:27:28] you're going to learn some new things.

[00:27:30] You're going to get some new lessons.

[00:27:32] You're going to get some new examples

[00:27:33] to share with everybody.

[00:27:35] But are you the kind of person

[00:27:37] that's continually curious about life

[00:27:40] and kind of pushing into new territory

[00:27:42] and trying new things?

[00:27:43] So I think it's part of what are you putting in?

[00:27:46] Well, are you investigating an arena of life

[00:27:49] that has nothing to do with your job

[00:27:52] but you've always been curious

[00:27:53] about now you're going to go

[00:27:54] and learn some things over there?

[00:27:55] So anyway, try some new things.

[00:27:58] Lead yourself in that area.

[00:28:00] Be curious and keep on learning.

[00:28:01] And then I think the last one

[00:28:03] and we've talked a ton about this over the years

[00:28:05] but who do you surround yourself with?

[00:28:07] From a leadership input standpoint,

[00:28:09] who's encouraging you?

[00:28:10] Who's challenging you?

[00:28:11] Who's asking you about how it's going

[00:28:13] and how's your character?

[00:28:15] How's your heart?

[00:28:16] How's your family?

[00:28:17] Who do you have around you

[00:28:19] that is one of those inputs into your life?

[00:28:21] And do you have some of those people

[00:28:24] that can be a support to your leadership

[00:28:26] and that might take some self-leadership

[00:28:28] to find and cultivate some of those friendships?

[00:28:31] Yeah. No, that's really important

[00:28:33] and really good and an important reminder.

[00:28:37] And like you said in the top of this episode,

[00:28:39] just the value of self-leadership is

[00:28:44] if you're not leading yourself,

[00:28:46] it's really hard to be everything

[00:28:49] that the Lord wants you to be.

[00:28:51] It's hard to lead others

[00:28:51] if you can't lead yourself

[00:28:53] is what it comes right down to.

[00:28:54] And I think self-leadership

[00:28:56] is really about being honest with yourself

[00:28:58] about who you are,

[00:28:59] what your gifts, abilities, strengths are,

[00:29:00] it's self-awareness

[00:29:02] and then it's continuing to cultivate that

[00:29:04] and to be the kind of person

[00:29:06] that has character through discipline over time

[00:29:09] and all of that.

[00:29:10] And not in a pressure-packed kind of way

[00:29:14] but in a way that's going to bring you life

[00:29:15] and life to the organizations that you lead.

[00:29:18] So yeah, self-leadership,

[00:29:20] it's something we can't do without.

[00:29:23] There's a ton of value there

[00:29:24] but we know in the quiet places of our hearts

[00:29:27] when nobody else is watching,

[00:29:29] the hardest person to lead is often ourselves.

[00:29:32] And so stick with it, keep at it

[00:29:34] and be gracious with yourself

[00:29:36] when you're not getting this right.

[00:29:38] Get up, give it a try again.

[00:29:41] Well, Jesse, this is good stuff.

[00:29:43] Thanks for bringing this before us today.

[00:29:45] I hope this whole leadership series

[00:29:47] has been helpful to you.

[00:29:50] Pastor, as you're listening to this

[00:29:51] and thinking about this,

[00:29:53] reach out to us if you want to talk more.

[00:29:55] If you have questions,

[00:29:56] Jason or Jesse at ReclaimLeader.com,

[00:29:58] we love interacting with you

[00:29:59] and continuing the conversation.

[00:30:02] We really do view this as a community

[00:30:04] that's here to support each other.

[00:30:06] So I hope you feel supported

[00:30:08] and encouraged and seen

[00:30:10] and that all of this helps you

[00:30:11] to show up as a better leader and pastor.

[00:30:14] And man, before we sign off,

[00:30:15] any kind of last things?

[00:30:17] This is our last leadership episode.

[00:30:19] Oh no, do we have to end the leadership stuff?

[00:30:23] No, we're going to spiritual formation.

[00:30:25] So I'm excited.

[00:30:26] It's really talking about discipleship

[00:30:28] for congregations.

[00:30:29] Is there an next topic?

[00:30:30] And really it's an extension of our leadership.

[00:30:32] Our life as followers of Jesus,

[00:30:35] now how do we help others live that out too?

[00:30:37] And so I'm looking forward to that.

[00:30:39] It's going to be a ton of fun

[00:30:39] as we get into that in this next month.

[00:30:42] All right, everyone.

[00:30:42] Hey, as we always say,

[00:30:44] leadership is hard.

[00:30:45] It is so much better when we do it together.

[00:30:47] Take care.